Not By Works

i mean honestly

i remember what helped me when i used to believe a false gospel of works salvation

was God using many brothers and sisters to break it from me paired with much prayers and laying down what i thought i knew at Gods feet and returning to study

not all of you guys were harsh with me

even if i was rude and accusing

some were harsh

and some were gentle
i needed all of it
(thank you guys)

i guess i just... wanna try to start fresh with ben

im not saying i believe i said anything that wasnt true

or wasnt from a good place of wanting to help by exposing the truth

im just saying sorry if anything i said was out of line

i know im capable of stepping outside the box of talking to someone into the box of talking AT them....

These are wonderful scriptures and I believe they are telling the truth.

Now interpret John 15:1-2, especially when Jesus says that "every branch IN ME that beareth not fruit, he taketh away.
So interpret these items in the saying:
1) who are the 'branches'?
2) what does Jesus mean when he says "every branch IN ME"?
3) who is 'he'?
4) what does Jesus mean, 'he taketh away'?
5) who is 'he' going to take away"
6) where is 'he' going to take them?

Thank you for your analysis.

I just reiterated what you said, so if I don't know what I am talking about, neither do you.

No, I embellished the 90% of the people you know disagree with you. You have said nothing about the make up of the 90%, but I did, so what is that to you. I kept your 90% statement in tact, I did not embellish that. And even if I did, does that make me satan? That is a pretty large step from what type of Christian you think I am to satan. You must be desparate to please your followers.

To deny the HS is to deny his witness (that Jesus is the Christ) and you deny his promptings to do the things that Jesus did.

Can't you CALL HIM BY HIS NAME, HIS name is HOLY SPIRIT. In my opinion, using HS is VERY DISRESPECTFUL. DO YOU BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A "HE", the THIRD PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY, worthy of all respect?

There is one thing to twist the scripture to fit my theology, there is another to have a different interpretation than you do.

I simply have a different interpretation than you do. This does not make me satan. You are making me out to be satan incarnate, because I don't tow your line.

Christians are all over the place and have many interpretations about what it means to be born of water and born of the sprit. Yours is just 1. Mine is another. So stop with you are satan. I have my right to believe what I think is right. You have your right to believe what you think is right. I will never call you satan or even intimate you are cain or son of cain. So stop calling me names.

Have an adult discussion about these things and who knows, you may be able to persuade me to your interpretation. But calling me bad names, does not bode well from one Christian to another Christian.

Hi VCO, and thank you for this post. The Church my wife and I attend, (I am currently home bound and will return after my recovery), is a non-denominational Church. I have included a partial list of what our Church believes, a "Statement of Faith."

When I read some of the fake gospel messages on this thread, such as benhur's fake gospel, it makes me wounder where on earth did they get their bible training from. Some of benhur's ideas from the bible almost sounds "cultic" and it makes me concerned about younger Christian's who may fall prey to his counterfeit gospel.

God bless you all in the name of Jesus Christ

Wayside Chapel
community Church

Statement of Faith
The Church consists of all those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, are redeemed through His blood, and are born again of the Holy Spirit. Christ is the Head of the Body, the Church, which has been commissioned by Him to go into all the world as a witness, preaching the gospel to all nations.

It is the will of God that each believer should be filled with the Holy Spirit and be sanctified wholly, being separated from sin and the world and fully dedicated to the will of God, thereby receiving power for holy living and effective service. This is both a crisis and a progressive experience wrought in the life of the believer subsequent to conversion. 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Acts 1:8, Romans 6:1-1

Salvation has been provided through Jesus Christ for all men, and those who repent and believe in Him are born again of the Holy Spirit, receive the gift of eternal life, and become the children of God. Titus 3:4-7

The Holy Spirit is a divine person, sent to dwell, guide, teach, empower the believer, and convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment. John 14:15-18, John 16:13, Acts 1:9, John 16:7-11

There shall be a bodily resurrection of the just and of the unjust; for the former, a resurrection unto life; for the latter, a resurrection unto judgment. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, John 5:28-2911. The second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ is imminent and will be personal, visible, and premillennial. This is the believer’s blessed hope and is a vital truth which is an incentive to holy living and faithful service. Hebrews 10:37, Luke 21:27, Titus 2:11-14

So would you say that if a Christian says they are saved, but exhibit very little good works, and thinks that good works are a burden not to be borne, that Jesus is working inside of them?

How many people at the thime, prior to Jesus being glorified had received Jesus the Christ in person, not just a baptism of the HS and prompting from him, but Jesus himself teaching them face to face, not small promptings, but mouth to ear, audible words from a God.
All of them.

Jesus said those brances IN ME that produce no fruit will be taken away by God, who is the husbandman. You cannot get around it.
These were believers and saved folk that he was talking to, that he personally converted, with his own mouth and his own words.They were brances on his vine and receiving him directly. Now later he would go and they would then receive the HS to take the place of a live Jesus. But Jesus teaching in the flesh trumps the promptings of the HS every time.

Oh, I see there is a cosmic connection that bears no fruit. Great. and a spiritual and vital connection which bears fruit. Great. How does that change the saying of Jesus that the brances IN HIM that produce no fruit will be taken away by God?

The Church that I attend, is Indian Hills Community Church. If you want some extra sermons, Dr. Gil Rugh, has every one recorded and any one can watch them on their sight. His is one entitled "The Final Bowl of God's Wrath".

https://www.ihcc.org/Resources/GilRughMessages#

That was the sermon on May 6, this year. Just click on WATCH.

So what if I add some %'s. I got your percentage right. You said that 90% of Christians disagree with your theology. All I did was take that 90% and broke it down a little more.

Are you comparing me to satan? Is it that obvious that because I want to do good works for the glory and the love of Jesus Christ, I am satan?

Why not answer me, is it because those branches IN JESUS can be taken away and burned? Does that prove ES is not a true doctrine?
And therefore you are not going to answer?

Because you are exhibiting a lot of hate right now, I feel we should not respond to each others posts for a while. I will let you have the final blow, but I will not respond to you until you have a different mind set towards me. Believe me, I am not cain, and I am not satan because I believe in doing good works for the love and glory of Jesus Christ.

You have been answered "several times" yet you still keep asking questions as if you are going to finally "accept" an answer if this or that is posted,sounds like you're belief isn't very "solid" since you leave more "questions" than "answers" and don't appreciate people's "time and effort" you really are along the lines of a "narcissist".

HOW CAN ANYONE WHO CLAIMS THAT "FAITH ALONE SAVES" VOID OF ANY SORT OF WORKS AND "ONCE SAVED YOIU ARE ALWAYS SAVED" YET IS NOT WORTHY OF CHRIST FOR NOT OBEYING AND DOING WHAT HE SAYS?

Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

DO YOU NOT WORK WHEN HE TELLS YOU TO CARRY YOUR CROSS AND FOLLOW HIM? DO YOU NOT WORK WHEN HE ASKS YOU TO LOVE HIM MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE?

Matthew 10:37-39 “Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

2 John 1:6-11 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.

Revelation 3:1-6 To the Church in Sardis “To the angel of the church in Sardis write: These are the words of him who holds the seven spirits of God and the seven stars. I know your deeds; you have a reputation of being alive, but YOU ARE DEAD! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I HAVE NOT FOUND YOUR DEEDS COMPLETE in the sight of my God. REMEMBER, therefore, WHAT YOU HAVE RECEIVED AND HEARD; OBEY IT, AND REPENT. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for THEY ARE WORTHY. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

New International Version 1984 Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who FEAR him and DO what is right.

"Talking to yourself" is pretty "pointless" wouldn't you say?
We are to be here for "fellowship" and "learning" not copying and pasting or posting a lot to be right in our own view sure we all would like to "be right" but it's possible to "overdue" and "forget to serve".
This thread has gone on for ages because everyone thinks they "know what's best" sometimes even thinking "I know better than God",God will always know best whether we are saved or not "gloating" and "goading" only "diminishes our spirit" I remember being taught to "have a clear mind" and often "pray for wisdom from God" because reading God's word can lead to becoming "know it alls" and "doing wrong by God".
If people would stop using God's word like some "play thing" or "pedestal" plenty more people would be saved and bringing more to salvation,honestly I don't know how anyone can "overlook" Jesus's sacrifice and how we wouldn't "be able to do as he did" and he deserves our "respect" and "sincerity" not "prideful words" and throwing his father's scriptures around like yesterday's newspaper.

It truly amazes me to see how everything that I explained to you just went right over your head.

I am willing to forget everything so far also.

I believe that it is by grace that you are saved. That is a true statement. But Paul also says in 20 different scriptures that we have to be furnished with all good works. So if good works has nothing to do with salvation, why even bring up the words 'good works'? If everything is guaranteed, why talk about 'good works' ever in the bible.

If all you have to do is believe and you are guaranteed eternal life, why do anything?

In fact Jesus does not use the verbiage 'by grace are you saved'. His verbiage is more centered around good works. He did not sit around like a buddha and think all day, he was out and about preaching, and healing, and feeding, and comforting, and testifying. His days were full of good works.

Yes, Jesus did say, if you believe in me, you will have eternal life. But he was not kidding around about 'if you believe'. In his parable of the vine, he states an astounding doctrine. He says that "those braches IN ME (which are those who are saved) that produce little fruit (as a result of little or no good works) will be taken away by God, the Father of Jesus.
If SE was a real deal the saved would not have to worry about bringing in the fruit, and would not be worried about being taken away.
So Jesus, in this parable says there is no SE.

So when Jesus says if you believe in me, that means, he is expecting you to do as he did, or as he says, if you love me, keep my commandments. Come follow me. That does not mean to just follow him around and watch him work, that means you do the good works that he did. He was the perfect example of what a good Christian should be engaged in.