Not By Works

[TruthTalk]

"Talking to yourself" is pretty "pointless" wouldn't you say?
We are to be here for "fellowship" and "learning" not copying and pasting or posting a lot to be right in our own view sure we all would like to "be right" but it's possible to "overdue" and "forget to serve".
This thread has gone on for ages because everyone thinks they "know what's best" sometimes even thinking "I know better than God",God will always know best whether we are saved or not "gloating" and "goading" only "diminishes our spirit" I remember being taught to "have a clear mind" and often "pray for wisdom from God" because reading God's word can lead to becoming "know it alls" and "doing wrong by God".
If people would stop using God's word like some "play thing" or "pedestal" plenty more people would be saved and bringing more to salvation,honestly I don't know how anyone can "overlook" Jesus's sacrifice and how we wouldn't "be able to do as he did" and he deserves our "respect" and "sincerity" not "prideful words" and throwing his father's scriptures around like yesterday's newspaper.

Are you not criticizing everyone here on this thread and then your telling us don't criticize, or gloat and goading. Personally I learn a lot from everybody here, and have made a few friends, (fellowship). I would question your idea that we are using this forum as a "play thing" plus don't you know you can be a wild joker when you want to be. You seldom visit this thread lately, but now you come here to tell everybody what they are doing wrong? It isn't a wise thing to paint everyone with a broad brush.

Throwing scripture around like yesterday's news paper? I don't think so and pretty harsh words to say for a "Bible Discussion Forum.

You should rethink your very harsh criticism is what I think. And I just gave you a big "Like Sticker" yesterday

God bless!

 

[Endoscopy]

By grace, through faith that God would take care of their sin.

Incorrect. Yearly sacrifices for their sins was required. That looked forward to Jesus being the unblemished Lamb of God sacrificed for our sins.

 

[benhur]

1. Branches could be the saved and the unsaved
2.both may abide, follow Christ
3. Yep he taketh away that are not his, they are not part of him.
4. He simply put them away since they really dont belong and are fruitless
5, the usaved will be taken away
6. Ii is the other that will take them in the fire.

Thank you, I appreciate your response. The only thing I would say is that I believe the 'branches IN JESUS' represent those that are saved. I don't think a non-believer would be considered a 'branch IN JESUS'. What do you think?

 

[benhur]

Not hardly....you embellished what I said with ---->and you deny his promptings to do the things that Jesus did.

Which makes you false, deceptive and I liar...


A. Your false
b. YOU SAID I SAID which I did not say
c. I did not call you Satan, but rather that SATAN embellished the word in the Garden.
d. LEARN how to read and understand ENGLISH.....
e. The last bolded statement is idiotic, accusatory, judges motive and very similar to what the Pharisees did who were against Christ...

If you are comparing my embellishment to the embellishment of satan in the garden, then you are implying that I am satan also. So for you to deny that, you too are false and deceptive. I will not call you a liar as you call me.

I may embellish what you say and what you think. You do the same to me, so you can come off your high and mighty horse and get a little humility. When you say that I love my wonderful works that will certainly earn me eternal life, you are telling a falsehood. You know it, I know it. I have never said those kinds of words, ever. My good works are always for the love and glory of Jesus and God. No other reason. It is because I am a new person in Jesus and I am now inclined towards doing good works. I know that seems strange to you, but it is biblical, and you should share my inclinations too.

 

[benhur]

You still have not given us proof that you ARE BORN AGAIN, a Real Christian.

What proof can I give you except to let you know that I was baptized of the HS and I was baptized by full immersion in water. And I would add that as a new person in Christ, I am inclined towards good works for the love and glory of Jesus and God.

Tell me what other proof you need?

 

[benhur]

Can't you CALL HIM BY HIS NAME, HIS name is HOLY SPIRIT. In my opinion, using HS is VERY DISRESPECTFUL. DO YOU BELIEVE THE HOLY SPIRIT IS A "HE", the THIRD PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY, worthy of all respect?

Teach me instead of yelling at me, thank you.

 

[benhur]

No! Nobody can say that is saved. The salvation is developed in us daily:

• "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Php 2.12,13).

Besides, we aren't God's sons; rather, we are being done God's sons:

• "But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. " (John 1.12).

I agree.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Thank you, I appreciate your response. The only thing I would say is that I believe the 'branches IN JESUS' represent those that are saved. I don't think a non-believer would be considered a 'branch IN JESUS'. What do you think?

Hi Ben...The branches that are cut off are the branches that represent the hanger ons , the leeches , they are clinging on because they were fed by Jesus , because He healed , because of all the wonderful things He done , but they did not abide in Him , just like today , people who claim they know Jesus , but they do not , they know Him not intimately , and God being The Vinedresser will cut off all dead branches , the leeches , the fake ones just like Judas...

But those of us who are in Christ Jesus will be pruned , cut back so we will bare more fruit , even if we only bare one tiny raisen , we will be known by that fruit...xox...

 

[joefizz]

Are you not criticizing everyone here on this thread and then your telling us don't criticize, or gloat and goading. Personally I learn a lot from everybody here, and have made a few friends, (fellowship). I would question your idea that we are using this forum as a "play thing" plus don't you know you can be a wild joker when you want to be. You seldom visit this thread lately, but now you come here to tell everybody what they are doing wrong? It isn't a wise thing to paint everyone with a broad brush.

Throwing scripture around like yesterday's news paper? I don't think so and pretty harsh words to say for a "Bible Discussion Forum.

You should rethink your very harsh criticism is what I think. And I just gave you a big "Like Sticker" yesterday

God bless!

Truth is truth,was not Jesus "harsh" as well?
God's word is not easy to teach or preach because some portion will be "sorrowful" to us.
For some death is sorrowful,for some hell is sorrowful,for some the lake of fire is sorrowful,for some works are sorrowful,for some faith is sorrowful,for some life is sorrowful,for some affliction is sorrowful,and is like a "fire" only "quenched" by "sharing" it.
I have not been in my "right mind" of late letting things such as "pride" and "habit" take me over and through that "experience" I realize that any discussion of the bible can be a "double edged sword" on the one hand much can be "learned" on the other hand much can be "ignored".
It is quite a "thrill" to stand on God's word against opposition but at times we become similar to our opposition and think we don't need to do much anymore,I myself have been "spirit deprived",because I took the "Holy spirit" for granted and due to "excruciating pain" I hurt people around me through gossip and angry spouting, and even grievanced myself by telling myself to do this or that instead of "trusting" God/Jesus to lead.
As you well know noone is "exempt" from a sinful life and while we ought to be "thankful" to Jesus for dieing for our sins and doing so much to keep us from having to live in bondage to sin,we should always think first of God/Jesus concerning his word.
We have always been "fortunate" that God/Jesus "suffers us" we should always remember that lest we let our egos take hold,for though we may indeed be saved but there are always still "consequences for our actions" best to remember that we need God/Jesus he doesn't need us,he fulfilled his law by his own good judgement and he will finish what he started,"with or without us".

 

[benhur]

It truly amazes me to see how everything that I explained to you just went right over your head.

It did not go over my head. I read what you said with interest.

You say that not 1 of the people Jesus spoke to were baptized in the HS. I do not see that that has anything to do with his reference to "branches IN HIM"? These "branches IN HIM" refer to people who are baptized and are one with him in the vine. These are the very saved. So it does not matter who Jesus was talking to, what matters is the people referred to in the parable. Again, Jesus referred to them as "branches IN HIM", (those who are saved)

You also say that "without that vital union with christ, there can be no life and no productivity". I agree with your statement. Those who are self-attached, who Jesus neither elected nor saved nor sustains are not what I would call, "branches IN JESUS".
Those "branches IN JESUS" are those that Jesus elected, saved, and is sustaining. However, for whatever reason, some of those
"branches IN HIM" are not responding to his sustainance, and are not producing fruit. Therefore God, the husbandman is cutting them off and taking them away. Remember these branches that are being taken away are those branches that are IN JESUS, not unbelievers NOT IN JESUS.

If that fact of the parable goes right over your head, then there is not a lot that I can do but point it out to you.

You tried hard to push the idea that those being taken away were those who were self attached, but that is not someone that is IN JESUS, that would be an imposter NOT IN JESUS. So I do not think your interpretation is good.
Here is the scripture again:
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[benhur]

You have been answered "several times" yet you still keep asking questions as if you are going to finally "accept" an answer if this or that is posted,sounds like you're belief isn't very "solid" since you leave more "questions" than "answers" and don't appreciate people's "time and effort" you really are along the lines of a "narcissist".

I specifically asked TT to answer the analysis of the parable of the vine.

Other people have tried to answer, but not TT. Therefore, I keep asking him. Not you. But if you would like to take a shot, do your best.

TT is the one that called me the deceiver and liar, and so I would like him to put his analysis where his mouth is.

 

[benhur]

Agree with most of the above statement but as a Christian my own good works are worthless, Ephesians 2:8-9. But the works that I allow the Holy Spirit to do thru me are what God commanded of us:
"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." Ephesians 2:10
But this is just the true believer allowing the Holy Spirit of God to do His work in us so that God can produce His fruit in us.

Do you believe that all Chrstians do the works that the Holy Spirit wants us to do? Do any deny the Holy Spirit, either purposely or by not hearing him?

 

[Rosemaryx]

I specifically asked TT to answer the analysis of the parable of the vine.

Other people have tried to answer, but not TT. Therefore, I keep asking him. Not you. But if you would like to take a shot, do your best.

TT is the one that called me the deceiver and liar, and so I would like him to put his analysis where his mouth is.

Hi Ben...I tried to give you explanation on a post not far above this one...xox...

 

[benhur]

Hi Ben...The branches that are cut off are the branches that represent the hanger ons , the leeches , they are clinging on because they were fed by Jesus , because He healed , because of all the wonderful things He done , but they did not abide in Him , just like today , people who claim they know Jesus , but they do not , they know Him not intimately , and God being The Vinedresser will cut off all dead branches , the leeches , the fake ones just like Judas...

But those of us who are in Christ Jesus will be pruned , cut back so we will bare more fruit , even if we only bare one tiny raisen , we will be known by that fruit...xox...

Can you rightly say that a clinger on who is fed by Jesus, and healed by Jesus, and saw the wonderful things He did, but do not abide in Him are the same kind of branch that is referred by Jesus in the parable as "branches IN HIM"? I do not, but that is just my interpretation.
Here is the scripture again:
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

I agree with what others have said that circumstances may be that one is unable to produce much fruit, and God will be the judge, and he will be merciful.

 

[benhur]

Hi Ben...I tried to give you explanation on a post not far above this one...xox...

I saw it, and thank you. I did answer you.

 

[TruthTalk]

Truth is truth,was not Jesus "harsh" as well?
God's word is not easy to teach or preach because some portion will be "sorrowful" to us.
For some death is sorrowful,for some hell is sorrowful,for some the lake of fire is sorrowful,for some works are sorrowful,for some faith is sorrowful,for some life is sorrowful,for some affliction is sorrowful,and is like a "fire" only "quenched" by "sharing" it.
I have not been in my "right mind" of late letting things such as "pride" and "habit" take me over and through that "experience" I realize that any discussion of the bible can be a "double edged sword" on the one hand much can be "learned" on the other hand much can be "ignored".
It is quite a "thrill" to stand on God's word against opposition but at times we become similar to our opposition and think we don't need to do much anymore,I myself have been "spirit deprived",because I took the "Holy spirit" for granted and due to "excruciating pain" I hurt people around me through gossip and angry spouting, and even grievanced myself by telling myself to do this or that instead of "trusting" God/Jesus to lead.
As you well know noone is "exempt" from a sinful life and while we ought to be "thankful" to Jesus for dieing for our sins and doing so much to keep us from having to live in bondage to sin,we should always think first of God/Jesus concerning his word.
We have always been "fortunate" that God/Jesus "suffers us" we should always remember that lest we let our egos take hold,for though we may indeed be saved but there are always still "consequences for our actions" best to remember that we need God/Jesus he doesn't need us,he fulfilled his law by his own good judgement and he will finish what he started,"with or without us".

Okay up to you, I still think your criticism was uncalled for, you are still an okay guy to me and thank you for your explanation, God bless.

 

[Magenta]

 

[Rosemaryx]

Can you rightly say that a clinger on who is fed by Jesus, and healed by Jesus, and saw the wonderful things He did, but do not abide in Him are the same kind of branch that is referred by Jesus in the parable as "branches IN HIM"? I do not, but that is just my interpretation.
Here is the scripture again:
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

I agree with what others have said that circumstances may be that one is unable to produce much fruit, and God will be the judge, and he will be merciful.

But Jesus was not abiding in them , They were not abiding in Jesus...That is why they are cut off , like Judas was , there are and always will be many Judas...

John MacArthur says this...All those characters play a part in Jesus' metaphor. The vine is Christ; the vinedresser is the Father. The fruit-bearing branches represent the eleven and all true disciples of the church age. The fruitless branches represent Judas and all those who never were true disciples. ...

I hope this helps you...xox...

 

[TruthTalk]

Notice to this thread, benhur has gone to the land of Ignore. And why?, so that I can separate myself from all of his lies and deceptions. He is nothing more than a Modern day Pharisee, the blind leading the blind. It is not good to keep hearing day after day a twisted interpretation of the bible.

Romans16:17
"Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them."

 

[BillG]

To me, you did not answer 2. You did not answer 3. Reading your post again, you may have answered 4. Not sure if you answered 5 and not sure if you answered 6.

Sorry if you feel I am aggressive. You do to at times. I will try to hold it down. Thanks.

Firstly I apologise if I have been aggressive towards you.
That was not my intention, it's more against what we disagree on.

Was Judas a branch in the vine?