Since it has been addressed, i thought I'd ask

I enjoy a healthy disagreement, but I don't see it here very often. Too many people are quick to denigrate another's person, relationship with God, or intelligence instead of focusing on the ideas under discussion.

This past week another contributor wrote that I have been "turned over to Satan" because I kept challenging some ideas in his posts. I take it whence it comes, but it's disappointing that some people are so lacking in basic respect.

I would offer this: ideas are fair game for criticism. If your ideas can't stand up to criticism, they aren't worth holding. However, if you feel a need to attack another person, it's time to take a break.

I would offer this: ideas are fair game for criticism. If your ideas can't stand up to criticism, they aren't worth holding. However, if you feel a need to attack another person, it's time to take a break.

amen

the word of God is our sword ((Ephesians 6:17)), sharp and two-edged, able to divide soul from spirit.
many of you know that post studies swordfighting. in part i do this because it's flippin cool, but also in part because i believe the lessons one learns in skillfully wielding a weapon of steel transfer by metaphor to skillful use of the spiritual sword that the Lord arms the believer with.

one of the first lessons a swordsman must learn and fully grasp in order to have joy in the art is that you do not fight against your opponents sword; you fight against your opponent. most movie choreography gets this absolutely wrong ((partly in ignorance and partly for safety)), and most people when they pick up a stick to play at sparring get it completely wrong in the same way. two idiots or children fencing will slap at each others weapons, in such a way that if the opponent doesn't parry they aren't going to get hit anyway. people without training and without skill swing at the other sword, not at the opponent's body. this is dangerous nonsense and the way to nothing but defeat.

you must strike at the opponent, with intent. so that if your swing isn't blocked, it will hit: your target is not the weapon of the one standing against you: it's the one you fight against.

and we, if we walk - and fence - in the spirit, do not fight each other. the other man or woman is not your enemy and not your opponent: the principalities, the powers, the rulers of darkness in this world and in high places are the opponent.
strike with the sword against the lie, against the evil thought, against the blasphemy. swing not against the person, and not against the 'sword' they hold, as it were, when someone replies with misused scripture. you are not trying to break scripture with scripture; you are trying to pierce and disarm the evil one. your spiritual sword is meant to wound and destroy lies and false ways, not people. not flesh and blood.


((if that makes sense))

Manyt times it is simply a case of "tough love," but there are many who think asserting what they believe is more important than simply sharing understanding.

CharliRenee, thank you for asking this question to the cc forum... I too have observed the 'attack-style' engagements, and I too have been intrigued if not mystified by these types of interactions amongst christians...

It is interesting to see how many folks are in agreement with the sentiment of fairplay:
"ideas are fair game for criticism. If your ideas can't stand up to criticism, they aren't worth holding."

Here is a sports culture analogy that it reminds me of: Having been exposed to the USA Wrestling and the International/USA Judo cultures - it would seem that within the American Wrestling community it is completely acceptable for fans to yell and scream and argue with the referees decision. Similar to American Baseball - it is practically lauded for fans to yell at, argue with, and criticize the Umpire... Whereas, within the International and USA Judo community, where judo has Japanese origins - it is completely forbidden.

But as Christians do we not share a common culture of kindness, consideration, and respect amongst our brothers and sisters in christ... Do we not teach our kids that everyone is entitled to their own opinions, and while we do not have to agree with them, should we not strive to respectfully disagree with them. Especially, if we are adamantly assured that our opinion are based upon facts and evidence - do we not then have the intellectual advantage to maintain the moral high road. Are not our arguments more convincing without the personal attacks.

I loved John McCain's funeral, we learned a lot about a passionate man, that was very argumentative about the things that he believed in, and yet he was able to maintain a jovial and respectful relationship even amongst his rivals...

Of course we can not all hope to be as clever and witty as John McCain, and while it was well known that he was no saint - all who knew him agreed that he was a man of character and respect - to include those who did not agree with his beliefs...

Matthew 7:1-5
Chapter Parallel Compare
1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

I believe it is how we look at things. When we see an unbeliever, do we see sin or a sinner in need of rescue. If we just start beating them over the head with our beloved scriptures, they will turn away.

We must also ask ourselves, are we working for God being led by the spirit? Or are we just doing what seems right in our head. Realize sometimes we will be doing something quite different than what we think needs done.

Matt. 24:14 "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come."

God is not calling everyone to repent and be baptized. Sometimes we are just witnesses. Sometimes one sows, another waters and another reaps. Think about it.

the word 'instruments' here in English, in Greek is a word that is more accurately "armaments"
it is a military word that could refer to armor, shields or weapons -- the 'instruments' of a soldier.

what i'm saying, is that the deceiver turns the deceived into his weapon.
the skillful fencer, who has success, aims to strike the opponent: the deceiver. not the weapon: the deceived.

look at this play:

View attachment 188442

the man on the left, with his left hand has grabbed the hilt of the sword of the man on the right, binding him up so he is not in danger, and with his right hand cuts the head of the man in blue. moreover the sword of the man in red is between the opponents sword and his head, both blocking any cut he may attempt by wrenching and aimed true at the proper target.
this is how we would skillfully use the sword of the Lord: close off the threat of the opponents weapon, and strike the head of the deceiver, who having been bound, is unable to parry your blow.



((hoping this makes sense to someone other than me lol))

lies, false doctrine, wickedness, confusion -- these things are the enemy. Satan turns people into his weapons: prevent them, and stab true at the true enemy

We all struggle with sin. If you notice, most of the Ten Commandments given to Moses relate to how we treat other people. It's a problem for all of us. We do not love as we should, and this is something that comes from the heart.

We don't automatically get rid of our sinful nature when we are saved. We still contend with that nature on a daily basis. Our minds are being renewed, and this is why Jesus compels us to forgive each other. If your brother comes to you asking you to forgive him, you forgive him. Why? Because the Lord knows we are works in progress.

As we read and meditate on the Word, as the Spirit of God works in us (Ephesians 2:10 - For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.) we become more like him (Ezekiel 36:27
And I will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules.).

We also should consider that God never intended for us to be "converts" but "disciples". This word disciple does not simply mean one who identifies as a Christian but one who actually follows the teachings of Christ.

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Notice here that the sheep follow him because they are sheep. He is the Sheppard and they are the sheep. They are, in this context, predisposed to following him because they are sheep. They do not become sheep because they follow him, they follow him because they are sheep. So that, a sheep will behave as sheep do because it is who they are. A Christian will walk in the ways of God because it is who they are. (2 Corinthians 5:17 - Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation.[a] The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.)

There are little sheep who need to grow. They may stray from time to time, but these little sheep are loved and cared for by God. If you are a mature sheep, have compassion on the little ones and love them. Because all of us were once babes needing instruction and guidance, and God is not partial in his treatment of his own children.

Love each other, do not compromise on the faith once handed to the Saints, and forgive everyone their trespasses as your Heavenly Father forgives you.

the word of God is our sword ((Ephesians 6:17)), sharp and two-edged, able to divide soul from spirit.
many of you know that post studies swordfighting. in part i do this because it's flippin cool, but also in part because i believe the lessons one learns in skillfully wielding a weapon of steel transfer by metaphor to skillful use of the spiritual sword that the Lord arms the believer with.

one of the first lessons a swordsman must learn and fully grasp in order to have joy in the art is that you do not fight against your opponents sword; you fight against your opponent. most movie choreography gets this absolutely wrong ((partly in ignorance and partly for safety)), and most people when they pick up a stick to play at sparring get it completely wrong in the same way. two idiots or children fencing will slap at each others weapons, in such a way that if the opponent doesn't parry they aren't going to get hit anyway. people without training and without skill swing at the other sword, not at the opponent's body. this is dangerous nonsense and the way to nothing but defeat.

you must strike at the opponent, with intent. so that if your swing isn't blocked, it will hit: your target is not the weapon of the one standing against you: it's the one you fight against.

and we, if we walk - and fence - in the spirit, do not fight each other. the other man or woman is not your enemy and not your opponent: the principalities, the powers, the rulers of darkness in this world and in high places are the opponent.
strike with the sword against the lie, against the evil thought, against the blasphemy. swing not against the person, and not against the 'sword' they hold, as it were, when someone replies with misused scripture. you are not trying to break scripture with scripture; you are trying to pierce and disarm the evil one. your spiritual sword is meant to wound and destroy lies and false ways, not people. not flesh and blood.


((if that makes sense))

the word of God is our sword ((Ephesians 6:17)), sharp and two-edged, able to divide soul from spirit.
many of you know that post studies swordfighting.