Sabbath

not to mention that David had a man murdered. now, giving his army captain orders to withdraw and leave Uriah to die would fall under the " lies in wait " part of the Law.

Witness = (Hebrew) "ayd" "testimony, record, from the root of "ood" to duplicate, protest, testify, to admonish, charge, testimony, record.

As I have pointed out over and over, but you refuse to accept, "two or three witnesses" as spoken about in the "LAW" is talking about "Accusers" not observers.

In context it is not about observing an event, rather, bringing an accusation against someone. So in context in the Hebrew, "Witness" means to accuse someone of something.

By the mouth of two or three "protestors" "testifiers", "Admonishers", "chargers".

This has noting to do with being an eyewitness as your "works" have clearly shown. You are not an observer of the event, but you are bringing a "Witness" against David, the Lord's Anointed. Those servants of God who viewed the event did not bring a "witness" against the Lord's Anointed.

So there were no "Witnesses against David" period. God showed David his sin and David repented and was forgiven just as the Law of God Promised. And the Christ was still honoring His fathers promise in His Time as a man.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I find it fascinating how you are not capable of understanding this Biblical Truth.

My God offered His own Son's Death for the sins of the World, He didn't kill an infant child to pay David's debt or anyone's debt, it was part of his punishment as it is written in the scriptures you ignore below. I don't believe in your religion that says just any infant child could be killed and pay for David's or the sin's of the World, or that more deaths than the Christ was needed to pay the debt. I believe the Christ's Blood was sufficient for David's and for my Salvation. Even if you don't.

But you are free to preach whatever you want.

The scriptures below, once again, prove your religious doctrines as from man and not from God. You are free to continue promoting them even after the scriptures clearly show you are in error. But I believe this is unwise.

David was punished for his sin just as God said. Your unbelief in God's Word's below doesn't make the Word's of God Void.

9 Wherefore hast thou despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in his sight? thou hast killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword, and hast taken his wife to be thy wife, and hast slain him with the sword of the children of Ammon.
10 Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.
11 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbour, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun.
12 For thou didst it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun.

David was punished, and accepted the punishment and was forgiven just as God said.

Lev. 26:
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them.
40 If they shall confess their iniquity, (Like King David, the Lord's Anointed did)and the iniquity of their fathers, with their trespass which they trespassed against me, and that also they have walked contrary unto me;
41 And that I also have walked contrary unto them, and have brought them into the land of their enemies; if then their uncircumcised hearts be humbled, and they then accept of the punishment of their iniquity: (Like King David, the Lord's Anointed did)
42 Then will I remember my covenant with Jacob, and also my covenant with Isaac, and also my covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land.

I don't hate you. If I hated you I would agree with the falsehoods you are preaching about God in His name. But I Love you with God's Love, therefore, I post HIS WORD's and pray that you will consider them, repent, and bring forth work's meet for repentance.

I can do no more.

I had not mentioned before because of the great benefit of a doubt I maintained, but now I know.

According to the Word we are not to quibble, argue or contend about words. Either you understand what is being said or you do not.

It is just fie to ask the meaning of aword, but once understood, to continue is contentious.s and should not be practiced.

where in the law does it say that if you have remorse your sin will not find you out?

the testimony of the scripture is witness. the child born of adultery is witness. the prophet that the Lord sent is witness. the Lord is witness. the messengers sent back and forth to bring the act about are witness. the account didn't get into the Bible by being uncertain whether it is a true account or not.

why fight so hard to deny the truth?

the truth is that the law condemned David without question and without recourse but his sin was removed and that is something the law could not ever do.

it is something to praise God for, not to squirm around trying not to confess

Probably not a big deal one way or the other...

Probably not a big deal one way or the other...

also according to the word:


Romans 16:17-18
I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them. For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.

also according to the word, and the very next lines...

19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I rejoice because of you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.

...'crush satan under your feet harkens back to the garden of Eden, does it not?

...and conclusion...

25 Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past, 26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience that comes from[f] faith— 27 to the only wise God be glory forever through Jesus Christ! Amen.

Obedience that comes from faith....

What does scripture say about the death of David's son? 2 Samuel 12:14 But because by doing this your son will die to atone for your sin. ??????? NO that is not what it says! Nowhere does it say that. There was only 1 man who paid the price of atonement and that was the Son of God, Yeshua/Jesus/Christ.
this is what it says-
2 Samuel 12:14
"But because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt, the son born to you will die."

Sin always has consequences. When we repent we are forgiven, but we will still have consequences for our sins in this life.

The infant baby didn't bring an accusation against David, nor did any other person of that time. No one but God accused Lord's Anointed. And of course you and Dan.

Your sin will always find you out. What He hopes is when He reveals it to you, like He did to David, you will repent, rather than ignoring Him in unbelief until it is too late, like those who call the Christ Lord, Lord did in Matthew 7.


You said the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's laws. This is an untruth, a falsehood as the scriptures clearly show. Yet you continue to teach it just as the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's Time continued to push their "Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men".

You said God ignored His Law regarding David. This is a falsehood, an untruth as Leviticus points out. Yet, you continue to preach it even after the truth was pointed out to you. This is the same thing the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did.

You said David was not punished for his sins. This is an gross misrepresentation of the Bible. Sampson, Moses, Cain, Sodom, were all "punished for sin" along with David. But even after the scriptures were clearly pointed out to you showing your error, you attacked me, called me a liar and so on. I don't care about that, but you continued to further your doctrines even after the scriptures clearly showed you that this doctrine was false. Is this the "Christ in you"? I say that not as an insult, but that you might consider that you are not immune from deception. If David can be tricked, you can surely be tricked.

You said God killed David's infant son to pay for his sins. This is an egregious misrepresentation of God's Salvation plan. It is untrue first and foremost, it paints a false picture and narrative about the God of Abraham and it takes away from the GREAT Sacrifice the Man Jesus made for His People.

I know you are convinced of these things. Men can be deceived, they can believe things that are not true. We aren't talking about an disagreement about a word or letter. This is a complete re-writing of the Scriptures and it leads to more lies and more deception.

I have never said the Law saves or gives life. I have not even hinted of such a thing. But the Law does give the promise of Mercy to people who "believe" in the creator of it. "Love me and keep My Commandments". God did not "ignore" His Law with regard to David, he established it, He fulfilled it, put it into affect. You miss the whole point when you accuse David of being a liar, murderer, and rapist. You separate yourself from the mind of Christ who saw something completely opposite than you did about David.

David was a great man, who like all men made a mistake, he made a bad one. Sin is Bad Post. It is really exceedingly bad. It affects our mind in a negative way, it affects those around us, it leads to deception, lies and spiritual death. But David didn't argue with God's Word. He didn't tell Nathan, "Don't you know who I am?", or "How dare you falsely accuse me". Nothing mattered to him but getting right with God. He was not a liar and rapist, God didn't forgive him because he was a liar and rapist. You judgment of him is false.

I know you are convinced you are already there, already saved. So given that it's hard to believe that you are susceptible to deception. That you could believe something that is not true, or further a falsehood. WE all have to face these things. I get that Post.

Yet it can not be denied that you are preaching things which are not true. If you can be so convinced these lies are truth, what else are you convinced about that is not true? Now that the Word of God has revealed these things, will you suffer the humiliation of what they exposed, like the great King David? Or will you just stop your ears and silence the messenger as the Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time did..

My hope is that you will be pricked and consider these things, not out of hate for you, but out of brotherly love.

Until this thread I had never even heard of anyone thinking the death of King David's son was an atonement. It's false notions like this that lead people to believe there is a mean Old God in the Old Testament with no mercy, and a young lovey dovey God of the New Testament who abolished every precedent established by the first. A house divided.

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

The Lord of the Sabbath, who created His Sabbath for us men, causes divisions between "man's traditions and the Commands of God. This division started when Eve listened to "another Voice" and not to her creator. This division continued between those who serve God with their lips, like Cain, and those who serve God with their mind, body and soul like Able, and continues to this day.

For this reason the Christ inspired Paul to write for us.

Rom. 12:
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world (including the religions of this world) but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

you certainly are not serving God, because you do NOT believe that His Son was fully human and fully Divine.

notice that it isn't for adultery rape or murder that the son dies but because David had detested God and/or given the nations cause to blaspheme.

because David's sin in murdering Uriah and taking his wife had been removed.

just as i've been saying.

i did not say this son died to take away Davids sin, but that THE SON did and that this is a presage of the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world. the sacrifices of the law 'atoned' which literally means 'covered' sin, not removed it. same word as the pitch that covered the ark. the removal of David's sin had nothing to do with the Law and everything to do with the Messiah

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

I am sad that you feel that you were being interrogated. This is a bible discussion forum where we discussed the Bible. I had basically asked whether this practice was something talked about in the Bible.

If you don't want to talk about it you can just say that you don't want to discuss it.

Let's see if I understand.

In your view human Traditions are not good even if they are lawful.

And human Traditions are not bad if they are lawful.

So I think the conclusion would be that human traditions if they are lawful are neither good nor bad.

That's an excellent point! How is it that these enemies know about the event if allegedly there are no Witnesses.