Not By Works

Hi preacher, I just began a 2nd round of Chemo last Friday my PSA was up to 190 and needs to come down. Having minor side effects appreciate you asking. My wife and I are looking forward to Christmas service tomorrow morning and we praise God for leading and guiding us in all we do.

I need to apologize for the previous post because this is the second time I posed a question and it was misinterpreted.
Got to be a little more clear when communicating on a forum because sometimes you only get one chance to get your point across. I pray your life is going well and Merry Christmas.

Not even sure it's that complex.
Alas people try to make it complex and then some more.


To God be the glory, great things He hath done,
So loved He the world that He gave us His Son,
Who yielded His life our redemption to win,
And opened the life-gate that all may go in. Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
Let the earth hear His voice;
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord,
Let the people rejoice;
Oh, come to the Father, through Jesus the Son,
And give Him the glory; great things He hath done.
2
Oh, perfect redemption, the purchase of blood,
To every believer the promise of God;
The vilest offender who truly believes,
That moment from Jesus a pardon receives.
3
Great things He hath taught us, great things He hath done,
And great our rejoicing through Jesus the Son;
But purer, and higher, and greater will be
Our wonder, our transport when Jesus we see.

We will pray for you sir.

Nothing you stated in that post was unclear! I get what you were saying. I did want to make certain others did not see us believing we just sit down and do nothing though. Your post was clear, no issues there at all!

The only reason salvation is simple for us? Because he did it all.

Understanding we had no part? More complex than people think. We see this in that people are still fighting for man's part, both the workers for and the anti-Calvinists.

He did it all. Solid Deo Gloria!

It is interesting and annoys me intensely.

If we believe we are saved by grace through faith then the attack on it is 3 fold.

Obviously the first is works save.
Then it's "We use it as an excuse to sin and do what we want" antinomianism
Then the 3rd I think relates to your point above.

That we do not have to do good works as such.
As you say "Sit on our Duff's"

Am I a Calvinist?
I really do not know.
I would say I am.

I certainly believe the following

Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
Sola Gratia
Solus Christus
Soli Deo Gloria

I believe in perseverance of the saints.

So with regards to my 3rd point.
I don't sit in my fat ass and nothing.
I have no idea who will be saved and who will not.
I cannot judge who will be saved.
Only God knows and only he will judge.
That being the case I will endeavour to be the child that I am and walk in the way he has asked me to.

After all if he can save a wretch like me then he can save the person he has put in my way.

I know for myself I had no part.

Given my Muslim roots, my life experiences.
Even when I ran away he had run before me, prepared the place that I would run to.
He is always faithful to his word.

I love how he keeps calling you carnal when he knows he sins like everyone else.

How are you certain you're one of the elect?

Been a few days that I have missed and trying to catch up.
Seems this thread has taken a detour.

Surely P4T is assured he is saved, just as I am and as you are.

So we are assured we are saved.

If that's the case what is the assurance that we are saved?

What I love is how he asked to talk about it behind the scenes to preserve our friendship and the whole time, knowing I am in Australia and asleep, was mouthing me openly......says a lot about character......!!

Yesterday a follower of Calvin said we confess because we are saved.....that is the OX before the cart....my bible states we confess UNTO SALVATON

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation

No confession no salvation!

Ephesians 1:14 seems to indicate it's the Spirit.

which is interesting to me, because, and i hope you can follow this line of thought -
when Simon Peter declares Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, He tells him that flesh and blood didn't reveal that to Him, but the Father. Paul writes to the church in Corinth and says the man without the Spirit of God can't discern the things of God. Jesus tells Nicodemus that without being born of Spirit he can't see the kingdom of God. Jesus tells the multitudes that the pure in heart are blessed because they will see God. praying before His disciples, He says eternal life is knowledge of the Father, and of Him. He says no one knows the Father except the Son and who the Son chooses to reveal Himself to. He was put to death on the charge of making Himself equal to the Father, and He refused to speak a word in defense - this, after saying in the prayer in which He declared knowledge of Him = eternal life, that He is no longer in the world. He said earlier, while He is in the world, He is the light of the world. He says if thine eye be darkness, how great is that darkness! but if thine eye be light, thy whole body is light, and John describes His life and ministry as the light coming into the world, but the darkness rejecting it, and not knowing it.

((there's more but feels like i'm rambling already.. ))

i suspect that knowledge of who He is, is in itself an assurance of salvation. because of who He is.
maybe, lol. i've noticed that whenever i make a thread, it's a pretty fair bet at least one person stops in to advise me "you're making too much of this. don't think so much of it." "it's really much simpler than you're making it out to be"

Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

Paul got this wrong...he did not know or understand or was not inspired when he wrote this because he said that

WE pursuade men.....

peithó: to persuade, to have confidence
Original Word: πείθω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: peithó
Phonetic Spelling: (pi'-tho)
Definition: to persuade, to have confidence
Usage: I persuade, urge.

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26 ...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20 ...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23 ...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6 For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29 How can those who CLAIM to be saved thru Faith ALONE suffer for Christ if they believe and insist that no works of any sort is needed, but to believe/faith ALONE is sufficient to be saved. Does a person who teaches obedience to God cause another person to sin by doing so? Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God? Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers? Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN? Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4) Is it obedience to God to break the law? Did the Holy servants of God such as the prophets and the apostles OBEYED and taught OBEDIENCE to God? Who then causes another person to sin? ...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9 ...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6 ...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8 ...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6

PARAGRAPHS ARE YOUR FRIEND.

For the INITIAL CONFESSION, I totally agree with you. BUT that starts a LIFESTYLE of automatically wanting to CONFESS, each time we discover sin in our lives.

Chapter six and seven's context continues into eight. Paul proclaims in verse two of chapter eight His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:4)


For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so. This did not work for Paul nor will it work for us. The only way is Jesus Christ.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)

Paul claims he had been Made me free from the law of sin and death. No longer in captivity to the Law of sin which which is in His members. HE HAS BEEN MADE FREE! That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 8:2-4; 6:6,7)

Set free from the Law of sin and death. Our old man crucified with with HIM that the Body of Sin be destroyed. That Hence forth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin through Jesus Christ. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)


I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

In regards to 1Tim 1:15
He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief. Then he goes back to speaking of the mercy which he received for the things in which he did ignorantly in unbelief in verse 12. that in him first (same word as chief in the Greek) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. In other words you can't get much worse than me and I obtained mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)

I think satan got ahold of this thread the past few days. Although it goes to show how important this thread is. (If not he would not continually try to attack it) I fear it also has caused some damage, as we had two groups where were in the fight against legalism and the dangerous gospel which sadly convinces people they are walking toward God when they are not. And fighting each other. It split that group so bad, it even had a few from one group calling the other group unsaved, Not to mention the attacks and what I would consider unchristian like behavior from certain people,
In doing this, I fear he has caused a severe roadblock in thr fight against legalism, at least in this thread. Which may be difficult to overcome. Some peoples reputations have also been severely affected. It is sad that we can let satan get in here and do this.

The bible says God can take all things and turn them into good. I just pray he can take what has happened here. And somehow turn it to goof for HIS purpose in the fight against the false gospel of works which leads people to hell.. Lets pray for healing..

Not a problem. I definitely understand....lol


Amen!

Romans chapter 6

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God's grace; HIS salvation.

It is His kindness, His favor to and for us, It is His Goodwill, His inclining toward us.

His yearning, His longing compassionate imploring for us to encamp. To abode, to set ourselves down with Him and He with us. It is His Beauty, His appearance, His image and likeness, His joy in us for Sanctification, which is only found in Him through the Gospel. The Kingdom of God; Christ in you, the Hope of Glory.

2 God forbid. (not becoming; NO WAY! Being spoken in the optative mood; action doubtful) How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? (Being spoken in the Indicative mood; a fact)

3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized (Immersed) into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (Indicative)

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

4 (Indicative) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as (just like) Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should (Being spoken in the subjunctive; the mood of possibility ) walk in newness of life.

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin (old man of sin) might be destroyed (rendered entirely idle; Subjunctive mood; the mood of possibility), that henceforth we should not serve sin (present active).

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (the Body of Sin; the old man crucified; rendered idle)

8 Now if we be dead (past tense; done deal) with (together with) Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: (Future tense; In the Future in New Heaven and New Earth Rev 21:1)

9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

11 Likewise reckon (Figure; consider; reason; think; It’s Mood: Imperative. It is a command) ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A COMMAND; a thus saith the LORD

Phil 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

GOD through Paul goes on to say imperatively; COMMANDINGLY



12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

14 For sin shall not have dominion over you (indicative; a fact): for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

God has favored us with the favor of Christ.

15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid in no way.

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

17 But God be thanked, that ye were (past tense; the old man; the body of sin) the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

18 Being then made free (VERBAL NOUN) from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
An Indicative FACT For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. Being spoken in the IMPARATIVE; a command.

20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. INDICATIVE

2Tim 3:1-4 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

READ AGAIN 22 and then....

For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



23 For the wages (product; ration) of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(Rom 6:1-23)

I have to pick up with my day at this point. I will respond to the rest of your post later GOD willing. I pray the above edifies! Much love brother!

Do you still sin daily?

If so, then your whole post is invalid.