Not By Works

[lightbearer]

Chapter six and seven's context continues into eight. Paul proclaims in verse two of chapter eight His deliverance from the Law of sin and death which he claimed to be in service to through his flesh in verse 7:23, 25. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. (Rom 8:4)


For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
(Rom 7:22-25)

Chapter seven's use of the word mind is dealing with head knowledge; knowing the law and desiring to serve it because you know it is good and makes sense to you to do so. This did not work for Paul nor will it work for us. The only way is Jesus Christ.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(Rom 8:1-4)

Paul claims he had been Made me free from the law of sin and death. No longer in captivity to the Law of sin which which is in His members. HE HAS BEEN MADE FREE! That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 8:2-4; 6:6,7)

Set free from the Law of sin and death. Our old man crucified with with HIM that the Body of Sin be destroyed. That Hence forth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin through Jesus Christ. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
(1Pe 2:24 KJV)




I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

In regards to 1Tim 1:15
He states he obtained mercy in verse 12 because he did it ignorantly in unbelief. Then in context to that he is says he is chief. Then he goes back to speaking of the mercy which he received for the things in which he did ignorantly in unbelief in verse 12. that in him first (same word as chief in the Greek) Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. In other words you can't get much worse than me and I obtained mercy.

And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
(1Ti 1:12-16 KJV)

Paul did not put limitation on what GOD could do like so many what to do here. In respect to sinlessness He said,
Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:12-15 KJV)

Do you still sin daily?

If so, then your whole post is invalid.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10



For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)

For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.

I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? Or that maybe we are? That He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I think satan got ahold of this thread the past few days. Although it goes to show how important this thread is. (If not he would not continually try to attack it) I fear it also has caused some damage, as we had two groups where were in the fight against legalism and the dangerous gospel which sadly convinces people they are walking toward God when they are not. And fighting each other. It split that group so bad, it even had a few from one group calling the other group unsaved, Not to mention the attacks and what I would consider unchristian like behavior from certain people,
In doing this, I fear he has caused a severe roadblock in thr fight against legalism, at least in this thread. Which may be difficult to overcome. Some peoples reputations have also been severely affected. It is sad that we can let satan get in here and do this.

The bible says God can take all things and turn them into good. I just pray he can take what has happened here. And somehow turn it to goof for HIS purpose in the fight against the false gospel of works which leads people to hell.. Lets pray for healing..

Turn it to goof.. lol

Dude, your fingers need coffee.

 

[Budman]

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10



For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)

For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.

I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? Or that maybe we are? That He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

Do you still sin daily?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Turn it to goof.. lol

Dude, your fingers need coffee. View attachment 192258

Its my ipad.. It changes so much I give up looking for them all.. I usually run past 5 minute mark trying to re-edit everything.. so I gave up.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Its my ipad.. It changes so much I give up looking for them all.. I usually run past 5 minute mark trying to re-edit everything.. so I gave up.

Darn you, auto carrot!! lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Darn you, auto carrot!! lol

Its the Kittys fault.. lol

 

[blue_ladybug]

Its the Kittys fault.. lol

YOUR cat's fault.. Personally I think Locutus' corgi is to blame.. lol

 

[lightbearer]

Do you still sin daily?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10



For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)

For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.

I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? Or that maybe we are? That He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Why nobody can ever just give a simple yes or no answer?

ONE word. YES or NO.

 

[Hevosmies]

I think satan got ahold of this thread the past few days. Although it goes to show how important this thread is. (If not he would not continually try to attack it) I fear it also has caused some damage, as we had two groups where were in the fight against legalism and the dangerous gospel which sadly convinces people they are walking toward God when they are not. And fighting each other. It split that group so bad, it even had a few from one group calling the other group unsaved, Not to mention the attacks and what I would consider unchristian like behavior from certain people,
In doing this, I fear he has caused a severe roadblock in thr fight against legalism, at least in this thread. Which may be difficult to overcome. Some peoples reputations have also been severely affected. It is sad that we can let satan get in here and do this.

The bible says God can take all things and turn them into good. I just pray he can take what has happened here. And somehow turn it to goof for HIS purpose in the fight against the false gospel of works which leads people to hell.. Lets pray for healing..

Dont worry, its just an internet forum. Nobody has a reputation.

 

[Budman]

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief (disobedience through lack of commitment) make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar (false witness by saying one thing and living another); as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. But if our unrighteousness (Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) ( commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie (Unrighteousness, Disobedience; unbelief. Being a false witness by saying one thing and living another) unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;
(Rom 3:1-9)

As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
(Rom 3:10)

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law (the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD): that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is through (the) faith of Jesus Christ INTO all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(Rom 3:19-22)

Wherefore? Because they (Israel; the Jews which were given the oracles of GOD) sought it not by faith (changed heart), but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
(Rom 9:32 KJV)

As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(Rom 9:33)

For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. The righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law ) down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ (the Word; His commandments and His statutes which are written in this Book of the Law) again from the dead.) But what saith it? The word (Christ)is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; For Christ (the Word in your heart and mouth; the Faith in which we preach)) is the end of the law (written on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness to every one that believeth.
(Rom 10:3,4,6-8; Deut 30:10-14)

Romans 10:6-8 is a paraphrase of Deut 30:11-14. Paul through Christ paraphrased Deuteronomy knowing they would look it up and they would see the parallels Paul was putting forth. Deut 30:11-14 was a promise GOD was making then to HIS people. But alas they (as a whole) refused to have the changed heart; Faith in which HE was readily to give through HIS eternal and internal presence. So HE spoke it again as a future prophecy in Jeremiah 31:33. Which the writer of Hebrews repeats in 8:10



For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel (those who would go the distance with GOD; never letting go) after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws (the Word; Christ) into their mind, and write them in their hearts (and in their mouths): and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(Heb 8:10 )

Forasmuch as We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
(2Co 3:2-5)

For we are the Body of Christ the Temple of GOD. It is HE that works in us both to will and do HIS good pleasure; Not I but Christ the Rock in we stand.

I suppose you think Paul was incontinent? Or that maybe we are? That He sinned because he could not help himself even through Christ.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

 

[Hevosmies]

Why nobody can ever just give a simple yes or no answer?

ONE word. YES or NO.

I know right, its annoying. I will give a YES or NO answer. what is the question?

 

[Budman]

Why nobody can ever just give a simple yes or no answer?

ONE word. YES or NO.

Because if lightbearer does, either way, his whole house of cards will come tumbling down.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOUR cat's fault.. Personally I think Locutus' corgi is to blame.. lol

Lol, its the grey and white siamise!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Why nobody can ever just give a simple yes or no answer?

ONE word. YES or NO.

Because they can’t deep inside they know they are wrong

 

[GodsGrace101]

Do you still sin daily?

A yes or no answer will suffice.

What's the problem here?
Some think they don't sin???
LOL

OK.
Here comes my yes or no answer...
Ready??

YES.

WE ALL DO.

Have a happy Christmas!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dont worry, its just an internet forum. Nobody has a reputation.

It may be an internet forum, but God is represented. And people are supposed to represent him, when they look bad. god looks bad. Its not a minor issue

 

[posthuman]

11 Likewise reckon (Figure; consider; reason; think; It’s Mood: Imperative. It is a command) ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A COMMAND; a thus saith the LORD

this is in fact the first imperative in the whole book of Romans!

definitely not the last, but 6 chapters into the book is the first time it tells us to "do" something, as a command:
consider yourselves dead to sin, and alive to God through Christ!

((btw my avatar makes sense, right?))

 

[Budman]

Oh, I wanted to clear the air regarding a quote I posted from John Calvin about there being "babies a span long in hell." Though I've heard it repeated many times, even in sermons from various well known preachers, I could not locate a valid source for the quote. So I retract it, and apologize for the erroneous quote.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Oh, I wanted to clear the air regarding a quote I posted from John Calvin about there being "babies a span long in hell." Though I've heard it repeated many times, even in sermons from various well known preachers, I could not locate a valid source for the quote. So I retract it, and apologize for the erroneous quote.

See there is hope. Thank you bro!