The Lake of Fire

Jesus knew better but most humans believe his lies. We live in a fallen universe because of this. The issue going forward is to sort the truth from lies. Our fate and blessings in this life and eternity hinge on this one issue and without the Holy Spirit not simply residing but presiding in our souls, we will all lose blessings that were designed for each of us, in eternity past.

If he can offer it to Jesus, then that tells me that he has and will repeat that same promise to humanity, especially leaders. The results of believing that particular lie are laid bare in our history books.

Yep and the world still believes a lie. Its not over yet...the thing is there is only one planet earth and thse believing a lie are rapidly destroying it through their own sinful actions. This is why there is global warming. This is why so many animals have become extinct. This is why theres a huge gap between rich and poor and so many people are in slavery. This is why sin and fallenness affects everyone around us. This is why the old earth needs to go and a new heaven and earth must come...Jesus is bringing it.

Jesus's ministry was never cut short. Its ongoing in us,

Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord, and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you, whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Act.3:19-21

Jesus remains where he is now, until all things have been made perfect. Then, what he made perfect will be made manifest and the imperfect will vanish.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Jn.4:24

Unbelievers don't want to worship the God they can't see, don't want him reigning over them. Nothing to do with the Spirit and in fact mock believers for it.

And at the judgment seat of Christ for keeps.

Revelation 20:13 King James Version (KJV)
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Is the hell you are talking about different from the hell in this scripture?

God's love is infinite. IOW you can not know, nor can you begin to understand how much God loves his creations. Because of that great love, I am not able to believe that God would throw one of these loved creations into a lake of fire where their flesh burns and they feel the burning sensation, but can never die or get away from this exquisite pain for ever and ever and ever, where there tortured screams would be heard, worlds without end.

Even though you say you have been there, I do not believe it. If I were to believe you, I would have to not believe the love of God. I believe the love of God.

Gods love is perfect. It is also quite different from human love because of this. Our lack of understanding that justice is also part of God’s love can lead us down the path to universalism. If God only saves but does not condemn, then our Bibles are false and there is no need to repent.

He loves us because of who He is, not because of who we are.

I believe the 1st resurrection is when people are born again, made alive in Christ from the dead. The 2nd resurrection is the bodily one.

We reign with Christ in mercy, by his Spirit, as he taught us and continues to teach us, in love and peace and the rest of the fruits of the Spirit. for "a thousand" years, not "one thousand" years.

And no, I'm not "imagining" that Jesus is alive right now reigning over all the earth. I'm not imagining that believers already have eternal life and can never die. I'm not imagining that in Christ, Satan has no power over us. The unrepentant think my life in Christ is my imagination. Their delusions don't bother me.

Salvation is by faith in Christ. It always has been and will be until the end. Jesus never taught he would rule over fence sitters for a one thousand years period with an uncountable number of holy angels and with millions of saints in new bodies. People who think whakadoole is still. in charge will find out the truth when Christ returns in person and if people haven't lived by faith in God before this, they're done.

Ok well Journeyman, thanks for posting your thinking as its quite clear to me youve got something bother you about judgement day that you cant let go of. 1st reusrection and 2nd resurrection to you are only for believers and you want unbelievers to stay dead and vanish but according to scripture, you are mistaken. The unbelievers, the condemened and unrepentant, have their judgment too and are under the wrath of God.
You dont say how the thousand years are fulfilled.

You also are twisting everything I wrote around.
Dont you see that when Christ returns the seven plagues will have been finished. We will have our first bodily resurrection which is ONLY believers ruling and reigning...everyone else would have died or is outside of the Kingdom. Then after thosuand years of peaceful reign satans will come out of his prison and gather up the unbelievers left. They will try to kill the saints but God puts and end to that. And he will judge the rest. The saints had already had their judgment first thats why they got to reign WITH Christ.

After the lake of fire where death and hell and the false prophet are cast, the entire heaven and earth will be made new again.

Nobody is saying Christ is going to rule fence sitters. JEsus comes with a rod of iron. They will be outside the kingdom, doing their own thing unrepentantly until judgement day.

You obviously havent read chapter Five verses 10-11....? Cos it just says what I explained in my other post that you dismissed.

When Jesus was telling people that the meek would inherit the earth...have we inherited anything yet? No we are still waiting for redemption, we have the deposit, but we havent claimed it yet cos we not in our glorified bodies. Jesus had Doubting Thomas touch the scars of his hands and feet.

You sir, seem to not be willing to believe Jesus will ever come back where eVERY eye will see Him. You are not willing to concede what scripture says about judgement of the wicked.

I give you two scriputre references please look them up
JOhn 5:28-29
Daniel 12:2

Therefore Antichrist is thrown into God's presence???

No sis. The 1st resurrection is only for believers. The 2nd, the bodily resurrection, consists of both saved and unsaved and is the realization to the unsaved that the gospel shared with them in this present world and rejected by them, is true.

Since only Christ binds Satan, it must be that the gospel is assaulted world-wide. How exactly? I'm not sure. Could be laws being passed, unparalleled persecution. Heresy that is so deceptive is a favorite tool of the devil.

People are dead now, because they're outside the Kingdom. That's why were ambassadors for the King. We speak in the name of the King.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 1Jon.4:4

You have your foot on the devil's neck, and there's nothing he can do about it.

In Christ, we passed from judgment, from condemnation.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Rom.8:1

With Christ in us, we reign as he did, over all the powers of darkness.

They're being made new now in Christ. They haven't been tranformed yet. (Gal.6:7-8)

People are ouside the Kingdom doing their own thing now. He already came with the rod of iron, which is the unbreakable word of God (Isa.11:4). Jesus isn't coming with a literal metal rod to hit people wit who won't pay attention.

I'm not ignoring what you're saying. I've answered all this before. They're saying, "We will reign, because Jesus overcame." Not later on, but as the result of. Look,

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. Rev.11:15

Is he saying, "These kingdoms didn't belong to that Father and Son once. God hasn't always reigned over these kingdoms."??? No! He's saying, "Until Jesus rose from the dead, we didn't realize God and his Son have always reigned over these kingdoms." You see the difference?


This is the resurrection. The bodily resurrection.
Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Jn.5:28-29

This is the 1st resurrection. Believers only.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jn.5:24-25

Same thing with Dan.12:2[/QUOTE]

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. 2Thes.2:8

Don't throw a counter verse. Just answer it.

I believe God loves us because of who He is, AND because of who we are. We are His creation and His children. There must be justice, and condemnation, but not to the extreme that you profess. Can you imagine that if your daughter rejected Jesus, could you ever take her to a place of literal fire and brimstone and throw her body into that inferno and shut the door and leave?

The answer is no. She would face judgement, but not burning forever and not having relief from pain, second upon second, minute upon minute, hour upon hour, day upon day, week upon week, month upon month, year upon year, decade upon decade, century upon century, millienium upon millenium, eternity upon eternity. The answer is no, God would not put anyone through this kind of cruelty to meet out justice and condemnation.

I guess you didn't catch my point. Of course the antiChrist doom is the Lake of fire, but you also said that the LOF equaled God's Presence. So the logical thing to ask is 'will antichrist be thrown into God's Presence....
So you can explain rather than tell me not to quote counter verses.

So what exactly is the kingdom, today? Is it the church? What do you believe?

I believe the kingdom of God is here, in a spiritual sense, we got that in common. Jesus said if He drives out demons the kingdom of God has come upon you, ETC!
HOWEVER I also believe that there will be a LITERAL kingdom here on this earth, started by Jesus, one of these days!

When I read beat swords to plowshares i dont think no fighting amongst believers. This is clearly about NATIONS in general, has not happened, will not happen, UNTIL, Jesus returns at which time Jesus and the saints will RULE the nations as the scriptures teach.

Also you just completely twisted, turned and tried to change the meaning of Revelation 11:15.
NOT COOL!

If we do good, what is likely to be our reward?

Yes, in a manner of speaking, because he wouldn't willingly have any audience with Christ in glory. He's forced into it by the 2nd coming. There's no way out.

That's what I've been doing throughout the whole thread. Paul says,

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming. 2Thes.2:8

To me, on a smaller scale, but along the same lines, this is comparable to an intruder who touched the mountain Moses went up. Somebody who wasn't prepared to be near God and perished because of it.

There's more on how God himself is a consuming fire, but I don't want to go over this again. Brother, all I would like you to do is tell me, why does Paul say the beast is consumed and destroyed by the Spirit of Christ's mouth and the brightness of his coming? No mention of the lake of fire, just the presence of the Lord. Can you do that?

That would be totally up to Jesus. He said some would be called great in Heaven, and some the least. There are other verses that speak of crowns, which are cast at His feet.

Heaven and a life with Him for eternity, seems reward enough to me.

I'll just say I dont believe, as you said, 'the fire present is the very presence of God' and leave it at that.