Not By Works

There is no such thing as fake faith

Let me ask you, do I have faith? Do I know Jesus?
Some say there are believers, and truly believers as far as could be reasonably defined, faithful followers
of Christ, who walk in His ways and who have been changed, transformed by God and the Holy Spirit who
are told as below

So let us look at the problem I have. Those who truly know Christ know their fellow brothers and sisters
in Christ, for we all listen, follow and obey Jesus. We are His sheep and we "love" one another.

So a brother says, no you are deceived etc. From my perspective this speaker looks and feels like a believer, speaks like
one, claims to be transformed like one, yet judges and provokes the Lords people like an enemy.
So I am forced by their example to admit there must be fake faith, simply because of the behaviour before me.

To hate and condemn the Lords people over things that are not sin, is not the fruit of the Spirit, or encouraging
walking in His ways, or uplifting the unity of the Spirit, but practising discouragement, condemnation and division.
Paul describes such as these in these terms.

"I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people."
Rom 16:17-18

So yes my friend I understand what is going on, but I wonder, how so easily with such a gospel of grace,
anyone could end up doing such things against the people of God?

But then those who are not His sheep do not follow, do not listen and do not know Him so what would one expect.

Let me answer this with what Jesus said to the rich young man

Now a man came up to Jesus and asked, "Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?"
"Why do you ask me about what is good?" Jesus replied. "There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, obey the commandments."
"Which ones?" the man inquired.
Jesus replied, "'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"
"All these I have kept," the young man said. "What do I still lack?"
Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."
Matt 19:16-20

The rich young man said, "All these I have kept". Keeping commandments is not a problem

Paul says he was
"as for legalistic righteousness, faultless" Phil 3:6

So anyone who says keeping the commandments is impossible are not being biblical.
They are testifying to their own rebellion and their own failed capabilities and desire merely to condemn
others.

The above demonstrates the problem. We are called to love people, to know them, to reach out because
heaven is knocking on their door, and despite our differences we still love you.

And in all honesty, this comes from the deepest place in my heart, to individuals who have shaken everything
I hold dear in the most fundamental way possible, yet in Christ I am secure, loved and kept whole.

Remember the adage "do not make a parable walk on all fours. You are making the same mistake GB9, DC, made

For example, take the parable of the wheat and tares. Can all that that parable symbolizes occur in seven or eight months? (The amount of time it takes for wheat to grow?"

Apparently, since it takes a tree years to produce fruit, it also is seven or eight months from the time the seeds of the Gospel are planted TO THE END OF THE AGE.

I don't know also, tell me. Do farmers plant grain without plowing?

And the semipelagian thing is based on definition. Semipelagian teaches that the beginning of faith is an act of free will...I believe God initiates and completes the work in us. If you disagree, that's your right.

Also, what does the soil in the parable represent? Jesus explains that part.

Hi UnderGrace,

I had a vision yesterday. It was of people who were worried about losing faith, and so created a faith
were everything we certain and impossible to lose. The fear they felt about losing love was not possible
to fear any more because the love that was provided was eternal and never able to go away.

Then there were the doubters. Oh to be a doubter you must be wracked with fear of having to prove yourself
worthy of this love, and your faith must be pretend because you cannot ever rest in it.

And yet I know the love I have in Jesus and am secure and know I could never earn it, and yes I can betray
it which is why the love is even stronger still and my lips will eternally praise my Lord.

It is not fear that binds me but the love I know. It is rather those who fear losing love that are bound by the
fear which they are merely projecting on to others. God bless you, dear sister, and may the Lord heal you
of your fear of losing faith and His love, In Jesus Christs Name, Amen.

No I never said anything about without sin. My argument is and was based on Jesus' words about human inaability apart from grace. See John 6 staring at about verse 44

If you had read my posts more carefully, you would know that what I am saying is that no one believes savingly unless God initiates the work. For it is God who begins and God who finishes the work in us

Greek word for keep:
Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

https://biblehub.com/greek/5083.htm

It does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time. What exactly have you placed your faith (belief, trust, reliance) in for salvation? Jesus Christ alone or your best efforts to obey all of His commandments? (works)

Amen! - "counterfeit gospels wrapped in sugar coated double talk/hypocritical counterfeit gospels" is a good way of describing what false teachers peddle. Those who were previously banned and are back illegally under false pretences couldn't care less about breaking the rules. These agitators most likely find it humorous that they got away with coming back illegally.

and , here you are, STILL obsessing about how long it takes for one to bear fruit, judging away, sinning away, we are told not to judge.

so, no one is talking about time frames for you, mr. judgemental fruit checker.

judging fruit is God's place, not ours.

This is a sad post of someone who does not understand the Gospel, and I fear, lost.

So you have identified individuals that you say fit the description of Romans 16:17-18.

Yet in direct disobedience to Paul's admonition you remain here. He said to KEEP AWAY FROM THEM. How do you square this hypocrisy in your own mind?

Sorry bro, you don’t get to just ignore His word and make up your own gospel.


I keep His commandments.


His commandments are not burdensome, because I have a nature that is compatible with His, and I desire to please Him and have the power to live my life in obedience to Him.


It’s about love.


If you love Him, you will keep His commandment to love your brother.


If you love Him, you will obey Him.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



Paul says it this way -


Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13:8-10



Stealing and lying to your brother is not loving him.


Committing adultery and coveting your brothers wife and things is not loving him.



When you say you can’t keep His commandments, what you are saying is you simply can’t love your Lord or love His people.


What you are saying is, the born again new nature you have been given is not enough, the power of the Holy Spirit you have been given is not enough.


What you are telling this Forum and all the people watching this thread, is Jesus and His gospel isn’t sufficient for you or His people.



You sir are an enemy to the cross and you need to repent.




Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15



“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15







JPT

amen brother.... very sad indeed

matthew 19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

_________

Jesus was telling this man how to be perfect

this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)

Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?

then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was.... it is not evil to have possessions)


22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

____________



again same principal

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truly does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)


30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

____________


that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....

this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......

he does not love his enemy
let alone his literal neighbor....
far from perfect


people try to take and mix up
reproof
instruction for righteousness
the law
and works

and try to say a man needs more than grace and faith to be saved (which isnt true)

Jesus imputed righteousness saves us

by grace through faith we are justified in Christ....

What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to "believe" the gospel? (Romans 1:16)

So if a man with imputed righteousness, lives a sinful life, is he righteous?



Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7




JPT

Did Paul write to the Church, warning them of such individuals?


Writing to someone is not associating with them.



JPT

I never once judged anyone, just talked Bible. You are the one with an untamed tongue calling people names like legalist and such just because they don't agree with your bank exegesis

I never put any time frame, you and DC did. And you use bad exegesis that if applied to the parable of the wheat and the end of the the age happened seven or eight months after Jesus' Ascension

A. Trees take years to bear fruit, so apply the same to believers as trees

B. Wheat takes seven or eight months, so apply that to the wheat and tares parable

Doesn't work. Therefore you cannot use your made up principle consistently, lol

Good exegesis, buddy

when you get finished lecturing on command keeping, maybe you could try to pull up some honesty and say that John, in the same letter you quote verbatim , said the commands are to believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

so, to believe and love is to keep the commands. if you care about what John said. all of it, not just your cherry picked talking points.