Do you believe that faith is dead UNTIL it produces works and then it becomes a living faith and we are saved by BOTH faith AND works? That is deceptive.
It isn’t deceptive to believe the scriptures.
Do you also believe that a tree is dead UNTIL it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree? It takes a living faith to produce works - made us alive together with Christ by grace you have been saved through faith FIRST,
Faith without works is dead.
then UNTO good works. (Ephesians 2:5-10) It also takes a living tree to produce fruit. Something that is dead cannot produce anything. You must not put the cart before the horse.
Paul is explaining that we are to continue to obey after being saved.
So you believe that we are saved by faith + the right actions/works?
That is what the scriptures plainly say.
So how many works does it take?
Jesus saves a person when he accepts them.
How many works must we accomplish and "add" as a supplement to Christ's finished work of redemption in order to help Him save us?
It isn’t an “add” as a supplement to what Jesus did. That is what false teachers say.
Jesus says plainly who he saves and why. He tells us how to get saved.
Jesus SAVES US ALL ON HIS OWN, but he chooses to save those who have the heart he will live in. We have to be sorry for our sins and repent, and call on him.
Do you believe that we saved by 90% faith and 10% works? Or maybe 50% faith and 50% works? *Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. *No supplements needed. (Romans 3:22-28)
Faith alone is dead and cannot save anyone.
In Genesis 12, we see that Abraham left his country to a land that God would show him, yet that is only part of the story and it was not until Genesis 15:5, AFTER God brought him outside and said,
“Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them.” And He said to him, “So shall your descendants be.” *VERSE 6 - And he
believed in the Lord, and He
accounted it to him for righteousness. *Just as we see in Romans 4:3 -
“Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” You seem determined to believe that salvation is based on the merits of obedience/works. Are you seeking personal credit and glory for salvation?
You have been programmed by false teachers to say that. What you say is NOWHERE in the Bible. Nowhere anywhere in the Bible does it say what you did. It is not shameful to do what Jesus says to do to get saved. Jesus says plainly that his words are Spirit and life. Jesus says plainly to repent of your sins. He also tells us not to give up and to wait for him.
It only sounds mixed up to those who teach salvation by works. If what I explained to you in post #92,200 went right over your head, then it's because you teach salvation by works. You need to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine. When Paul uses the term "justified" he is using it in the legal (judicial) sense by which God accounts the believer as righteous, (Romans 4:2-6; 5:1) yet James is using the term "justified" to describe those who would show, exhibit, evidence, one to be righteous by the works that they do. (James 2:14-24)
This is a good point you bring up; and, if you keep with this deep and calm type of discussing with me, maybe you will hear me out about it.
Okay, here it goes: You noticed rightly that Paul speaks about being “justified”. Now think about it more…what justified the people in the Old Covenant? It was the purification works of the law! A person wasn’t justified before God unless they did the purification works of the law. That is what Paul is explaining. Paul is explaining why those WORKS OF THE LAW no longer justify. They no longer justify us before God because now only Jesus’ blood can clean us/justify us.
Please think about that more. I want to tell you that you are doing what few do, and that is to ask deeper question and really listen and consider what I am saying.
*Remember, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).*
James is speaking to the people on their LEVEL OF FALSENESS. James heard of this faith alone false gospel where people thought they only had to believe in God to be saved. James is giving examples of how everyone has to have a right action with their faith. We know from the scriptures that we are to humble ourselves and repent of our sins. James gets stronger in his explanation to completely destroy the false teaching of faith alone by saying even the demons believe and do SOMETHING.
He completely wipes out all possibility of any kind of argument to have faith and nothing else.
You still cannot seem to grasp the difference between an empty profession of faith/dead faith that remains "alone" - barren of works (James 2:14) and faith that trusts in Christ "alone" for salvation. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9)
You have to go back to what works Paul is speaking about. The purification works of the law were the only works that justified a person before God. That is how the Jews entered the covenant with God. That is how the Jews dealt with their flesh bodies. The Gentiles were the ones dead in their sins because they did not get justified/purified by doing the works of the law. The Gentiles were called UNCLEAN because they did not do the purification works of the law.
Man is saved through faith (rightly understood) in Christ alone and works follow as the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not as the essence of faith or as the means of salvation.
That preaching is not according to God’s Word.[/QUOTE]
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