Divorce?

You said that I said that she was 100% responsible for the marriage problems, and I did not. I cannot talk about his responsibility because he is not here and I have not heard his side of the story. I can only talk to the person who is here, based on what she has presented in her own posts. I can see from the thread so far that she is not interested in understanding how her own selfishness may be contributing to the problems, she is only interested in having people give her hugs and assure her that she deserves better and shouldn't have to live like this any more.

So--I've given my perspective as a Christian professional in the field of family relationships, and it's not what she wanted to hear, so I'm out...

Happy divorcing.

I didn't see one post where you didn't say she was being selfish and back up your POV with everyone that disagreed with you. You can talk about his responsibility, she has told you the story. She asked him to go to counseling and he is refusing. And he's carried this on for 10yrs. His responsibility is to go for help. She has told him she is leaving if he doesn't seek help. He cried,admitted he was wrong,went for help for a brief time and stopped. Yes, you can talk about his responsibility. If you can say she's selfish then you can talk about his responsibility to go for help and fix his issues.

Again you're making a judgement call. She's been dealing with this for ten years. She's asking him to go for help,that is not being selfish. If she was being selfish she'd have walked the minute something went wrong that she didn't like, she wouldn't have held on for ten years. Or she'd have a man on the side to look after her needs,that's selfish. She's still in the fight,still trying to say the marriage,alone. And I'm sorry but I find this a lot with Christian professionals,they blame the wife. It's wrong and it's unfair. My sister has stuck in a nightmare of a marriage because of advice from people just like you. She's taken 17yrs of abuse because Christians have told her she needs to stay married, that the fault is hers and she needs to please her man better. It's infuriating.

This kind of emotional neglect by the OPs husband is a terrible form of abuse. She should have walked away in the first year, but instead, she tried to help her husband, honour and respect him for 10 long years.

The personality change alone, says a great deal about how mentally ill her husband is. He either has a personality disorder, Dissociative Identity Disirder (maybe not enough alters?) or a mild form of psychopathology. They don't care a bit about others people's feelings, and one doesnt have to be serial killer to be a psychopath.

Someone else suggested depression. But, he won't see a doctor, get a diagnosis and treatment, yet some of you vote for her to live with this emotional abuser another 40 or 50 years? I'd like to see some of you self-righteous people live a month with a person like this, especially when they pretended to be something else before he married her.

I think you have done your best. God does not expect anyone to live with a cold, selfish, emotionally unavailable person. I know "abuse" is not grounds for divorce in the Bible. Perhaps abuse wasn't an issue in the Old or New Testament times? People lived short life spans, especially women who died often in childbirth. They lived close together, and the women talked, they knew about all the issues in their community. The older women may have had some ideas how to change things. Certainly, most men don't want their neighbours to hear them beating up their wife. So, abuse is not mentioned. Or, perhaps Jesus had to fulfill the law, before he could change it.

In turn, find me one place in the Bible it says an abused woman must stay with her husband. Because the husband of the OP is not a Christian, she is free to leave. Although she has not really answered whether she is a Christian. And, if what she says about the husband is true, he gives no evidence or fruits he has been saved by God.

I would urge you to leave this man. You are a mess, and you need to spend a couple of years recovering from this loveless marriage, and rebuilding who you are, with the help of God.

I guess I had a few more thoughts. What is the measure of when something can be deemed abusive? Perhaps she doesn’t like the shows, he does and criticizes them or wants to change the program when they watch together. Maybe she rages and he doesn’t think she will be a great mother. Maybe half the time he wants a divorce but he thinks it will financially break him so he avoids her. Maybe he can relax when she isn’t around and feels worse when she’s home because of her constant dependence. Maybe the three times he went to counseling she got worse and kept bringing up what the therapist told him to work on and neglected her part. Maybe her hormones are out of whack and he really can’t do anything right so he just stopped trying. It’s easy to point the finger and say he’s abusing her but maybe you just pulled the trigger on this loaded gun. Maybe she came to a Christian website hoping someone would absolve her of the guilt of her wanting to finally leave and find someone else to cling to. We really have no idea why her husband doesn’t love her, if in fact he doesn’t. Maybe she’s abusive. The point is, giving advice for someone to divorce is like someone standing on a ledge of a three story building and you tell them to jump. Maybe it won’t kill them but there will be a lot of pain to deal with, especially if the building isn’t on fire.

When my first marriage dissolved, the LAST thing I wanted was another relationship.
I ended up being sour over any kind of relationship. Friends, church, etc. Divorce takes a lot out of a person.
Like others have eluded to, it will take a lot of time and healing to get through. IT IS NO FUN!!!
But the release from mental bondage and abuse, over time, will finally kick in, and starting over can begin.
Be watchful, be vigilant, and guard your heart from bitterness and unforgiveness during a divorce.
I'm praying for you too.

I think we had a rough start. Here you are in complete turmoil, coming to a Christian site hoping to find loving brothers and sisters help you in your time of need. Instead of compassion you feel condemnation. I sincerely apologize for any anxiety I added to your burden. I didn’t intend to put you on the defensive. Just exhale, feel the arms of Christ pull you in closer and rest in His embrace. Let Him hold you up for a bit and know He’s not going to let you fall. Accept that you are not being rejected. Your husband just isn’t strong enough for himself now. Perhaps you reminding him that he is a crappy husband further beats down his ego and he fears a councillor will only echo the thoughts that he isn’t enough. If he is depressed then what he needs is winnable challenges. Nothing makes you feel like a winner like....winning. Maybe it’s been awhile since his last “adda boy!” Maybe he’s feeling unfulfilled and needs a boost. Midlife crisis isn’t out of the question, neither is low testosterone. Be blessed sister.

Not the case but you don’t know me so

You are correct. This wasn’t directed at your personality. It was intended for others not to give life altering advice based on literally twelve hrs of your first post. You seem to be genuine. There are ways to check for low T without seeing a Dr. Try to get frisky first thing in the morning. If erection is unresponsive then...good indicator. Also getting fatter in the chest (moobs). Does he workout? If he’s a runner, or cyclist, definite risk! Does he show interest in other women? Does he drink a lot of beer (rich in estrogen)? Also the gonads will seem smaller than before. Has he lost muscle mass? I don’t know if this is helpful or scary but if he won’t see a doctor than maybe you need to be the doctor.

Is there something you two used to do when dating that was fun, a particular game or place? My wife and I use to do crossword puzzles together, play Yahtzee and scrabble. I miss those. Take him back there. There will still be emotional memories connected to those places. There are some parks that always bring me back to the good ole days. Where did he propose?

Is he as successful as he wants to be? Does he enjoy his vocation? Does he have friends or is he a bit of a loner? Maybe he’s less of an extrovert? How does he spend his time? There was this lady I heard talk on “focus on the family”. She said she noticed how her husband loved her daughter and she was jealous. Then she watched her daughter interact with him. She always hugged him and walked with him while he cut the grass and just talked and laughed together. She caught on and started doing the same and won back her husband’s heart.

Just some thoughts

It was intended for others not to give life altering advice based on literally twelve hrs of your first post.

This kind of emotional neglect by the OPs husband is a terrible form of abuse. She should have walked away in the first year, but instead, she tried to help her husband, honour and respect him for 10 long years.

The personality change alone, says a great deal about how mentally ill her husband is. He either has a personality disorder, Dissociative Identity Disirder (maybe not enough alters?) or a mild form of psychopathology. They don't care a bit about others people's feelings, and one doesnt have to be serial killer to be a psychopath.

Someone else suggested depression. But, he won't see a doctor, get a diagnosis and treatment, yet some of you vote for her to live with this emotional abuser another 40 or 50 years? I'd like to see some of you self-righteous people live a month with a person like this, especially when they pretended to be something else before he married her.

I think you have done your best. God does not expect anyone to live with a cold, selfish, emotionally unavailable person. I know "abuse" is not grounds for divorce in the Bible. Perhaps abuse wasn't an issue in the Old or New Testament times? People lived short life spans, especially women who died often in childbirth. They lived close together, and the women talked, they knew about all the issues in their community. The older women may have had some ideas how to change things. Certainly, most men don't want their neighbours to hear them beating up their wife. So, abuse is not mentioned. Or, perhaps Jesus had to fulfill the law, before he could change it.

In turn, find me one place in the Bible it says an abused woman must stay with her husband. Because the husband of the OP is not a Christian, she is free to leave. Although she has not really answered whether she is a Christian. And, if what she says about the husband is true, he gives no evidence or fruits he has been saved by God.

I would urge you to leave this man. You are a mess, and you need to spend a couple of years recovering from this loveless marriage, and rebuilding who you are, with the help of God.

@Genipher
Found a great passage for you!

"Husbands, love your wives just as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her 26 to sanctify her by cleansing her with the washing of the water by the word, 27 so that he may present the church to himself as glorious—not having a stain or wrinkle, or any such blemish, but holy and blameless. 28 In the same way husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself." Eph. 5:25-28

Funny how everyone forgets how essential this verse is. After 10 years of not fulfilling this verse, the husband needs to wake up and do this, or it is over.

As for your Bible examples, Hosea was a prophet of God. Hosea married a prostitute as a metaphor for God's love for sinful Israel. And they must have been intimate, because they had three children, whose names were prophetic, for when Jesus would come, and Gentiles (No-People) would be grafted into the Olive tree. Not an example in any way, shape or form of a Biblical marriage. Quite the opposite!

As for Leah and Jacob, Leah's conniving father lied to Jacob many times, gave him Leah, who apparently was unmarriagable, instead of Rachel. He never wanted her. And yet, more intimacy, they had 5 Children together. Then she sends in her maid, who has more children

The point being, Jacob ended up with 12 children, a very important number in the Bible. As for Leah, she was definitely angry at the sister she usurped. And NOT the Biblical definition of marriage at all! Leah consented to the deception of her father. Really, Jacob could have sent her back to be with her father. Yet, he kept her, and continued to sleep with her. Hardly a woman scorned, Leah! Not a Biblical example of marriage, although Jacob did care for her and her children.

We won't even get into how in the Patriarchs time, a woman had 2 choices, marry or stay with her father. Ok, make that 3! She could become a prostitute. In fact, the divorce laws were to protect women, who could be put away on a whim. Not to protect a husband who has never lived his wife!

Genipher said,
"You made a vow before God to stick with your husband. Don't give up just because marriage has gotten hard. We were never told following Christ would be easy."

Did you read the OP and subsequent posts by her??? The marriage NEVER got hard! She got along with him, they married, and suddenly his entire personality changed. The marriage never worked from day 1. He was never intimate or loving! He has never been a husband to her. No children were produced, because no intimacy. She made a vow to a man who literally didn't exist. She tried to make the marriage work for TEN years, and has given up hope her husband will ever change. And rightly so!

In fact, I wonder if he isn't a closet homosexual? They often marry and have loveless marriages. The idea is to make people think they are not gay, and the poor woman is the one who gets hurt.

Really hilarious so many people say the man has to lead, and when he doesn't, it's all the woman's fault!

One more thing, Genipher, how long have you lived in a loveless marriage, that you can judge? At least 10 years, I would hope.

We won't even get into the tremendous legalism this is. Abide by the OT laws. Funny, then why did Jesus inspire the above passage in Eph 5? Lots more written to the man, rather than the woman, and always missing Eph. 5:21, which talks about mutual submission. Eph, 5:22 doesn't even have the word, submit in it. That's a translators decision, to include a word that isn't even there in Greek!

You assume a lot. Yes, husbands are to love their wives. But where in scripture does it say that if they don't, the woman is free to divorce him? Seems like that would be returning evil for evil. In fact, 1 Peter 3:1 tells us that if we have an unbelieving husband, he can be won over without words, by the behavior of his wife.

You're right, I'm not in a loveless marriage. I can't imagine how hard it would be (which is what I meant by not giving up just because the marriage is hard). My heart hurts for OP. Yet, we have an example in God with how we're to respond: Forgive and forgive and forgive, right? Love is patient and doesn't give up, yes? God is our best example...he loves us even when we are "emotionally detached" or "cold". And with that love, he slowly wins us over. OP still has the chance to do the same with her husband.

Love is a choice, not just a feeling.

Long story short, as other posters have said, God HATES divorce and being unhappy in ones marriage isn't a legitimate reason to end a marriage.

You assume a lot. Yes, husbands are to love their wives. But where in scripture does it say that if they don't, the woman is free to divorce him? Seems like that would be returning evil for evil. In fact, 1 Peter 3:1 tells us that if we have an unbelieving husband, he can be won over without words, by the behavior of his wife.

You're right, I'm not in a loveless marriage. I can't imagine how hard it would be (which is what I meant by not giving up just because the marriage is hard). My heart hurts for OP. Yet, we have an example in God with how we're to respond: Forgive and forgive and forgive, right? Love is patient and doesn't give up, yes? God is our best example...he loves us even when we are "emotionally detached" or "cold". And with that love, he slowly wins us over. OP still has the chance to do the same with her husband.

Love is a choice, not just a feeling.

Long story short, as other posters have said, God HATES divorce and being unhappy in ones marriage isn't a legitimate reason to end a marriage.

You know that really is unfair of you considering I had empathy toward your situation. I felt like people were making judgment calls toward the OP. It sounded very much like she was being condemned and assumptions were being made even though she said she didn't want divorce and wanted to do right. I stand up for people when I feel it is right. Excuse me for sticking up for her when everyone else was saying she was selfish and maybe she's the problem. smh

Maybe I wasn’t thinking about you when I wrote this...and I wasn’t. Perhaps the conviction was all yours. My issue is that everyone wants to use the Bible for loopholes to excuse worldly living. I’ve been on CC for awhile now and like her I have brought my struggles and hurts into threads hoping for council. Many people think I should have gotten a divorce years ago. If I took this advice then not only would I have potentially destroyed my life, but also have missed the many years of being a father. Not to mention what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger, in Christ. Suffering has been a main catalyst in almost every victory story ever written, Bible or otherwise. Perhaps God is calling the OP into working with other children. Maybe if her home needed her so badly she would be unable to step into this role. God purifies us with fire. The pain in my life has strengthened me unimaginably. If I was comfortable, I might have been stagnant. I am who I am today because of my marriage. Sometimes if you have to carry someone half your life, it adds to your strength. I trust the Lord. I’m not searching scripture for an exit strategy. I look at the people who stood the hard course and we read about because they did. Being unloved in a marriage is not abuse according to the Bible. Abuse isn’t grounds for divorce for that matter. I think we have a God given right to be safe but neglecting a child is child abuse because they are dependent on you. Neglecting your wife is different. The Bible says it is better to live on the roof than share the house with a quarrelsome wife. Sounds like neglecting to me. I’m not a marriage councillor, so I won’t ever tell someone to divorce their spouse, ever. I will tell them to flee for safety. I will even pick them up, holding a baseball bat if needed. It’s too large a decision to make for my limited understanding of anyone’s situation. I think many here should accept this as wise advice. “What God has united, let no man separate.” My idle words if planted into fertile soil may destroy someone’s life. On this subject I will tread delicately. I enjoy your posts regularly. I hope this doesn’t offend you. I thank you for your advice and empathy. Some here at CC (not you) give unwise advice.Many people think I should have gotten a divorce years ago. If I took this advice then not only would I have potentially destroyed my life, but also have missed the many years of being a father. Not to mention what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger

Hungry said:

My issue is that everyone wants to use the Bible for loopholes to excuse worldly living.

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Ok but no one is talking about that here. The OP has taken her marriage seriously. She doesn't want to divorce,she wants to do what is right. She has given it to the Lord. She is not cheating on her husband,no wordly living here.

Hungry said:

Many people think I should have gotten a divorce years ago. If I took this advice then not only would I have potentially destroyed my life, but also have missed the many years of being a father. Not to mention what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger...

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Maybe this has worked for you,though you sound like you resent your wife and you are very unhappy in your marriage. You are a father,well the OP has been denied being a mother. Something her husband knew she wanted before marriage. What doesn't kill us is a cliché, that's not necessarily true in all situations.

Hungry said:

Perhaps God is calling the OP into working with other children. Maybe if her home needed her so badly she would be unable to step into this role. God purifies us with fire. The pain in my life has strengthened me unimaginably. If I was comfortable, I might have been stagnant. I am who I am today because of my marriage. Sometimes if you have to carry someone half your life, it adds to your strength. I trust the Lord. I’m not searching scripture for an exit strategy.

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Right, maybe you are being called to stay in your marriage. But that's between you and the Lord. That's not the best advice for every couple. What bothers me is some Christians stay in unhealthy, abusive (physical or emotional) marriages thinking they are suffering for Christ. It's not right. If you feel called to do that then blessings on you. But you can't be upset with your spouse,you resent them, you can't try and make them change if you chose to suffer and stay. Couples stay together and inside they resent each other almost to the point of hatred and that is wrong. If you feel called to stay,stay. But that's not the best advice in all situations. That is a choice you chose to make.

Hungry said:

I’m not searching scripture for an exit strategy. I look at the people who stood the hard course and we read about because they did. Being unloved in a marriage is not abuse according to the Bible. Abuse isn’t grounds for divorce for that matter. I think we have a God given right to be safe but neglecting a child is child abuse because they are dependent on you. Neglecting your wife is different. The Bible says it is better to live on the roof than share the house with a quarrelsome wife. Sounds like neglecting to me.

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And now we get to the meat of the problem. No one should ever,ever stay in an abusive marriage! Don't ever give that advice to a woman, or man !! Never,never,never stay in abusive marriage!!! Neither physical nor emotional. The Bible doesn't condone that,the Lord doesn't expect a person to stay in an abusive marriage. You are taking one verse waaaay out of context. Don't ever give that advice to a person. That can put their lives in danger and all the more so if they have children. Wrong,wrong,wrong advice. Please don't ever tell anyone that again.

Hungry said:

I’m not a marriage councillor, so I won’t ever tell someone to divorce their spouse, ever. I will tell them to flee for safety. I will even pick them up, holding a baseball bat if needed. It’s too large a decision to make for my limited understanding of anyone’s situation. I think many here should accept this as wise advice. “What God has united, let no man separate.” My idle words if planted into fertile soil may destroy someone’s life. On this subject I will tread delicately.

Click to expand...

I take marriage very seriously. I took a vow before God and I take that seriously. I intend to be married until I pass on or my husband does. I was blessed in old age with a wonderful man. I waited years to get married and I have a wonderful man that supports my in every way. I do not agree with divorce in most cases. We give up too easily,we walk away,we don't fix what is broken. People don't take marriage vows seriously,when things get hard they walk. BUT, in the case of emotional or physical abuse all bets are off. Any counselor will tell a person in an abusive situation to leave. Christian or otherwise. Do not ever tell someone who is being abused to stay in a marriage. God does not expect that. It's dangerous advice.

Hungry said:

I enjoy your posts regularly. I hope this doesn’t offend you. I thank you for your advice and empathy. Some here at CC (not you) give unwise advice.Many people think I should have gotten a divorce years ago. If I took this advice then not only would I have potentially destroyed my life, but also have missed the many years of being a father. Not to mention what doesn’t kill us makes us stronger

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You aren't offending me and I enjoy your posts too! Just this one thing we disagree on. I believe the OP has the right heart. She has hung in with her husband and she's done all within her power to fix her marriage,her husband refuses. She doesn't want divorce,she wants to do what is right. God can't change a person who is not will to change. I highly doubt the OP is about to take my advice and leave her marriage. But by what I hear her describing it seems to me she is in an emotionally abusive relationship. But I believe if she separated from her husband it might be the wake up call he needs to get his life in line and fix the issues in the marriage. But I have seen too much abuse in a marriage and I will never tell a spouse to stay in an abusive marriage. The OP seems intelligent enough to me to know the difference. I don't think she's going to run out and divorce and think "dang if I just hadn't followed the advice of that stranger on the internet I'd be happy today." She knows whether what she suffering is emotional abuse. If it isn't she needs to go to counseling on her own whether he goes or he doesn't and learn to cope in the marriage. I don't take divorce lightly but I will never agree a person should stay in an abusive marriage, it's dangerous and it's wrong.

1. Constant criticism or attempts to manipulate and control
2. Shaming and blaming with hostile sarcasm or outright verbal assault
3. The use of shaming and belittling language
4. Verbal abuse — name-calling
5. Withholding affection as punishment
6. Punishment and threats of punishment
7. Refusal to accept her part in the dynamic
8. Mind games, such as gaslighting, when it comes to accepting personal responsibility for her own happiness
9. Refusing to communicate at all
10. Isolating him from supportive friends and family

Here are what is to be considered emotional abuse according to the definition. The intent is to be controlling measures. It is INTENTIONALLY causing pain to manipulate. Losing interest in your marriage is not in this list. If he isn’t purposely avoiding her so she will feel forced to do something she wouldn’t then it’s not defined as abuse.

You assume a lot. Yes, husbands are to love their wives. But where in scripture does it say that if they don't, the woman is free to divorce him? Seems like that would be returning evil for evil. In fact, 1 Peter 3:1 tells us that if we have an unbelieving husband, he can be won over without words, by the behavior of his wife.

You're right, I'm not in a loveless marriage. I can't imagine how hard it would be (which is what I meant by not giving up just because the marriage is hard). My heart hurts for OP. Yet, we have an example in God with how we're to respond: Forgive and forgive and forgive, right? Love is patient and doesn't give up, yes? God is our best example...he loves us even when we are "emotionally detached" or "cold". And with that love, he slowly wins us over. OP still has the chance to do the same with her husband.

Love is a choice, not just a feeling.

Long story short, as other posters have said, God HATES divorce and being unhappy in ones marriage isn't a legitimate reason to end a marriage.

I feel people are belittling what the OP has said in her posts. I'll be surprised if she comes back. Yes, God hates divorce but He also hates abuse,emotional or physical. Only the OP knows if her marriage rises to the level of emotional abuse. But IF it does no one should ever tell a woman to stay in an abusive marriage. Whether that abuse is verbal,emotional or physical. Marriage is suppose to be a picture of Christ's relationship to the church. The husband is responsible for his actions. If he is being abusive and refuses to go for help then a wife is free to leave the marriage. No one should ever be told to stay in an abusive marriage.