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I have pondered the "two tier" experience claims of various Pentecostals and charismatics" over the years.
The basic idea is this: the person is supposedly saved but never experiences deliverance from sin in a substantial way. They are living an unproductive spiritual life for a period of time.
This is patently untrue. Pentecostals believe you are saved from the moment you accept Christ into your heart and your sins are completely forgiven and cast in the sea of forgetfulness. Nor do the have an "unproductive" spiritual life. Utterly false.
Then, all of a sudden, they have this "second experience" where they go from being a mediocre Christian to a super-duper Christian, sometimes accompanied by alleged spiritual gifts. Many times, the claimant allegedly speaks in tongues as proof of their special empowerment.
So when they received power from the Holy Spirit in Acts, what was that about? Apparently you have no clue what the Holy Spirits work is. Maybe read it for yourself.
The view of "second experiences" is often inferred from the text of the book of Acts. My position would be that the individual is viewing Acts as the normative, rather than a narrative or description of a transitional period of time.
No such thing as "second experiences". Never heard of it.
I recommend Dwight Pentecost's book called New Wine: A Study of Transition in the Book of Acts in regards to this view. He describes how the true believers were being transitioned from Israel to the people of God, the election was being transitioned from Jews to Gentiles, and the authority was passing from the priests to the apostles of the Church.
Election still belongs to the Jews. Gentiles are grafted in.
Here's the possibilities I can see in this regard:
1. The person was not saved during their first experience, and the second experience, the person was actually regenerated.
2. The person was saved during their first experience, but grew in their relationship with God and experienced a deeper level of relationship
3. The person is not saved, and is engaging in self-deception
My guess is that there are individuals in all of those categories.
I am not very open minded about "speaking in tongues", though....it seems like those making the claim often begin with someone instructing them how to "speak in tongues".
No, spoke in tongues before and no one "taught" me how to do so. Nor have I heard of such a thing in any of the Pentecostal churches I have been in.
I don't see anyone in Acts who had to be taught to engage in "speaking in tongues". However, there are so many youtube videos teaching how to "speak in tongues". Asking someone how they came to "speak in tongues" is informative..did they learn it from someone else? Did someone exert psychological pressure to get them to speak in tongues? Answers to these questions are instructive.
Good, here's the answers, no and no. Nor have I seen it in any of the churches I've been in.
Anyways, I am strongly against "two tier" systems which claim that there is a group of super-duper Christians, and another group of Christians who are not spiritually empowered.
It doesn't make one "super duper" anymore than it did in Acts. Anyone who says so is spiritually immature and have no clue about the work of the Holy Spirit.
I don't see it in Scripture. I guess I could go with the view that lazy, slothful Christians who don't engage in reading their Bible and praying could be a lower level of Christian, especially in their earlier Christianity. In reality, though, they are united with Christ, even if they aren't experiencing the deeper, satisfying relationship they could be having.
Everyone is at a different place in their walk. No one has "made it" yet. All are level at the foot of the cross.
The basic idea is this: the person is supposedly saved but never experiences deliverance from sin in a substantial way. They are living an unproductive spiritual life for a period of time.
This is patently untrue. Pentecostals believe you are saved from the moment you accept Christ into your heart and your sins are completely forgiven and cast in the sea of forgetfulness. Nor do the have an "unproductive" spiritual life. Utterly false.
Then, all of a sudden, they have this "second experience" where they go from being a mediocre Christian to a super-duper Christian, sometimes accompanied by alleged spiritual gifts. Many times, the claimant allegedly speaks in tongues as proof of their special empowerment.
So when they received power from the Holy Spirit in Acts, what was that about? Apparently you have no clue what the Holy Spirits work is. Maybe read it for yourself.
The view of "second experiences" is often inferred from the text of the book of Acts. My position would be that the individual is viewing Acts as the normative, rather than a narrative or description of a transitional period of time.
No such thing as "second experiences". Never heard of it.
I recommend Dwight Pentecost's book called New Wine: A Study of Transition in the Book of Acts in regards to this view. He describes how the true believers were being transitioned from Israel to the people of God, the election was being transitioned from Jews to Gentiles, and the authority was passing from the priests to the apostles of the Church.
Election still belongs to the Jews. Gentiles are grafted in.
Here's the possibilities I can see in this regard:
1. The person was not saved during their first experience, and the second experience, the person was actually regenerated.
2. The person was saved during their first experience, but grew in their relationship with God and experienced a deeper level of relationship
3. The person is not saved, and is engaging in self-deception
My guess is that there are individuals in all of those categories.
I am not very open minded about "speaking in tongues", though....it seems like those making the claim often begin with someone instructing them how to "speak in tongues".
No, spoke in tongues before and no one "taught" me how to do so. Nor have I heard of such a thing in any of the Pentecostal churches I have been in.
I don't see anyone in Acts who had to be taught to engage in "speaking in tongues". However, there are so many youtube videos teaching how to "speak in tongues". Asking someone how they came to "speak in tongues" is informative..did they learn it from someone else? Did someone exert psychological pressure to get them to speak in tongues? Answers to these questions are instructive.
Good, here's the answers, no and no. Nor have I seen it in any of the churches I've been in.
Anyways, I am strongly against "two tier" systems which claim that there is a group of super-duper Christians, and another group of Christians who are not spiritually empowered.
It doesn't make one "super duper" anymore than it did in Acts. Anyone who says so is spiritually immature and have no clue about the work of the Holy Spirit.
I don't see it in Scripture. I guess I could go with the view that lazy, slothful Christians who don't engage in reading their Bible and praying could be a lower level of Christian, especially in their earlier Christianity. In reality, though, they are united with Christ, even if they aren't experiencing the deeper, satisfying relationship they could be having.
Everyone is at a different place in their walk. No one has "made it" yet. All are level at the foot of the cross.
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