Is unconditional election biblical?

In all this thread there’s not been one verse stating that God has elected anyone for salvation.

Jesus Christ is God’s elect.

Why you yellin at me? "Oh come on!"

I really want to know why you believe. You are stuck on WHAT you believe. I get that. I believe the same. I'm asking WHY you believe.

You came an inch forward by saying GOD told you.... First, how did you know it was God, and second, WHY did you believe what He told you? KEEP digging Roger!

This is the teaching of Karl Barth, and as I have mentioned, he was an immoral man who lived with his female assistant and his wife in the same household in an intimate relationship.

He also denied the word of God was Scripture, claiming that it contained errors and inconsistency.

His view of corporate election IS true in the sense that the Church is elected or chosen to live holy lives and to fulfill the Great Commission, but salvation is by individual election.

I have listed Scriptures that are clear in this regard.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, you are an open theist and believe that God doesn't even have exhaustive knowledge of the future. I belonged to a cult that taught something similar. When I first came in contact with them, I asked the minister about predestination. He said, God didn't even know you were going to exist, and that your mother and father would have sex and you would be the result. I was dumb enough at that time to believe him, even though I knew what Romans 8-9 taught. I wasn't familiar with Isaiah, who says clearly that God knows all things, and conforms them to his purpose.

While open-theism is the most consistent form of free-will theology, it is also the most consistently ridiculous view You have to worship some god who doesn't know the future, and learns on the fly, rather than the omniscient, omnipotent Creator of the Universe, and stands above the laws of time and space. I have no need for an Alzheimer- god who forget things either, in case that's the angle you take.

And, God does not live his life in sequence like mere mortal men.

It is clearly the tendency of free-willers to drag God down to their level, in order to justify their theology and their presuppositions.

Again, I have clearly described that the Father elects certain individuals from the foundation of the world. He has given those to the Son, who atones for their sin. The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of the atonement to the person in time and space.

It is all consistent and biblical.

By character assignation you attack the thoughts and intents of others. What makes you think you know what is in the hearts of other men?

Mercy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is the teaching of Karl Barth, and as I have mentioned, he was an immoral man who lived with his female assistant and his wife in the same household in an intimate relationship.

He also denied the word of God was Scripture, claiming that it contained errors and inconsistency.

His view of corporate election IS true in the sense that the Church is elected or chosen to live holy lives and to fulfill the Great Commission, but salvation is by individual election.

I have listed Scriptures that are clear in this regard.

By the way, if I'm not mistaken, you are an open theist and believe that God doesn't even have exhaustive knowledge of the future. I belonged to a cult that taught something similar. When I first came in contact with them, I asked the minister about predestination. He said, God didn't even know you were going to exist, and that your mother and father would have sex and you would be the result. I was dumb enough at that time to believe him, even though I knew what Romans 8-9 taught. I wasn't familiar with Isaiah, who says clearly that God knows all things, and conforms them to his purpose.

While open-theism is the most consistent form of free-will theology, it is also the most consistently ridiculous view You have to worship some god who doesn't know the future, and learns on the fly, rather than the omniscient, omnipotent Creator of the Universe, and stands above the laws of time and space. I have no need for an Alzheimer- god who forget things either, in case that's the angle you take.

And, God does not live his life in sequence like mere mortal men.

It is clearly the tendency of free-willers to drag God down to their level, in order to justify their theology and their presuppositions.

Again, I have clearly described that the Father elects certain individuals from the foundation of the world. He has given those to the Son, who atones for their sin. The Holy Spirit applies the benefits of the atonement to the person in time and space.

It is all consistent and biblical.

One thing I must include in this discussion. I will never accept that God predestines souls to eternal condemnation without any hope to repent and receive Christ.

I like most have family that are as yet unsaved. I have and this may be what is missing in the church today wept before God that these souls might see their need to come to Christ and be saved.

To love Christ is to love lost souls. To serve Christ is to pray and witness to lost souls. All would be futile if God predestined everything and could not use me to further to gospel.

It is morally repugnant to me to consider that God elects men to eternal life and others to eternal death. God extends His mercy to all men. Shame on those and a far more just condemnation if they reject His mercy.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I am following a mandate given by Scripture. Biblical teachers are not only discerned by their words, but also their fruit.

Barth scholars acknowledge that he was involved in a sexual relationship with his assistant, and that his wife lived in the same household. It caused tremendous stress.

Christians do not judge teachers by their words alone, but also by their fruit.

For instance, to use a modern example, I do not hesitate to say that Paula White is a false teacher, because she has been married three different times. Her loony prophecies are not totally a separate issue. A person living in blatant immorality produces bad fruit, not only in their morality but also in their teachings.

By the way, how many individuals who hate Reformed theology claim that John Calvin was a murderer, that he used green wood to burn Servetus, etcetera? So, if you have issues with me referring to Karl Barth and his immorality, why wouldn't you refrain from making claims about John Calvin? Do you know what was in his heart?

If I look back at your posts, will I see similar claims?

By the way, for the record, John Calvin wasn't the one who condemned Servetus to death. The Geneva Council did. And, they defined the mode of execution. John Calvin wanted them to chop his head off which would be less painful.

Additionally, both Roman Catholic and Protestant authorities from other cities were consulted and all said he should be executed. So, it wasn't John Calvin's decision alone.

However, I am not a Calvin apologist and have not read any of his books. I simply know Scripture teaches a monergistic view.

Reformed RCC teachings, not separate but reformed.

And no, you have not clearly stated anything except a man made theology.

Btw, I’m glad God has chosen not to remember my sin any more. My almighty God can choose to do that.

I suggest these two videos for those who want to see the inconsistencies and dangers of free will theology:

https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=518101933226
https://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=52810135573

Ultimately, this theology dishonors God and attempts to reduce him to the man's level to maintain their libertarian free will concepts (notice that Reformed believers are convicted of creaturely free will, but not libertarian free will).

Open theism and process theology are radical forms of free-will theology, and go beyond Arminian theology. Guys like Clark Pinnock and Gregory Boyd teach this defective theology.

What does it mean to "remember" and to "forget" when it comes to God?

Do you believe that God forgot Noah was on the ark during the Flood?

You know, I have studied open theism and process theology and they would say, yes, he forgot him. LOL

And, the stuff you brought up about Jonah is similar.

Let me help you. When it says God remembered, it is talking about God's covenant promises. God "remembers" in a covenantal context, and he ACTS as a result. When it says God forgets, it is talking, again, about God's covenantal promises. He "forgets" in a covenantal context and doesn't hold it against that person.

See this article:

https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/did-god-forget-about-noah/

If you imply the humanistic, literalizing, anthropomorphic reasoning of open theism to Scripture you come up with nonsense.

I had a friend who was a devout Calvinist and he committed suicide. It was hard for many of his family to understand why the Lord chose him to commit suicide, that it was the Lord’s will, accept it.

What does it mean to "remember" and to "forget" when it comes to God?

Do you believe that God forgot Noah was on the ark during the Flood?

You know, I have studied open theism and process theology and they would say, yes, he forgot him. LOL

And, the stuff you brought up about Jonah is similar.

Let me help you. When it says God remembered, it is talking about God's covenant promises. God "remembers" in a covenantal context, and he ACTS as a result. When it says God forgets, it is talking, again, about God's covenantal promises. He "forgets" in a covenantal context and doesn't hold it against that person.

See this article:

https://answersingenesis.org/who-is-god/did-god-forget-about-noah/

If you imply the humanistic, literalizing, anthropomorphic reasoning of open theism to Scripture you come up with nonsense.

I bet you hate those verses where it says God repents. Most Calvinists that I know try to explain away the clear words, greekify, or say it’s some kind of morphism or whatever.

You're distorting what it means to be Reformed, and creating a misleading caricature. But, that's what guys like you do best.

An intelligent Reformed person would realize that the man may not have been a true believer, because he didn't endure to the end, or that he committed an unfortunate sin that God allowed. Even converted people sin, and God allows it, although it is against his prescriptive will.

Answers in Genesis? Really? Why not just go to the Bible?

Who can resist his will? I do all the time, Lord forgive me.

Correct, it is an anthropomorphism.

I don't hate the verses. Why would I?

God stoops to use baby talk that is helpful for purposes of communication.

Like I said, do you really believe God forgot Noah on the Ark?

If so, why not? You're using the same sort of reasoning and reading in a literalizing way.

I bet you hate the story of Jonah as well.😀