Is unconditional election biblical?

Exactly. SLAnderson always uses scripture out of context. He's hardly someone to emulate or use as an example of truthful exposition. Not surprised someone would stoop that low in attempt to buffer their erroneous beliefs.

Why pray for another's salvation if God doesn't interfere with their will?

By the way, God ordains both the means and the ends. That's what free-willers conveniently "forget" when they bring up your arguments.

Thanks for stepping in to call those of us who know and believe that God elects based on nothing good in us, but only by unmerited favor, a thing we call grace, arrogant people as you suggested.

@CharliRenee

This is from @preacher4truth ...

Quoted by @preacher4truth ...


“That's a ridiculous response filled with many false accusations. Thanks?

You're right though, you don't understand it.

Thanks for stepping in to call those of us who know and believe that God elects based on nothing good in us, but only by unmerited favor, a thing we call grace, arrogant people as you suggested.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31? Study it out.

The only reason any are saved is because God predestined and elected to save whom he wills, Romans 8:26ff, Ephesians 1 &c; Romans 9. Since you've claimed the classic "anti evangelistic" accusation you may want to read and study how Paul the Calvinist saw and was confident in evangelization because God has his people, the elect, out there whom he will save; Acts 18:9-10; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

In your diatribe you've called all those who died violent deaths for the cause of Christ arrogant, for they preached this same message, being Reformed, died for preaching this message of Christ you've assaulted.

You may want to go read some on Whitefield, John Bunyan, John Hus, Justyn Martyr, William Tyndale, all who embraced election, some died violent deaths for preaching this Gospel.

Your claim of arrogance, and anti evangelism, fear, doubt, they are all unfounded. Oh, and one last thing, we are more interested in him, not our belief system, something that has driven us to seek him out, and these truths he's revealed about himself. Its really sad seeing you take such swipes at us as you have.”

You might want to check out Tyler Vela on the Freed Thinker Podcast.

He is a former atheist who became a Reformed guy. He addresses a lot of myths that free-willers manufacture.

He did one on Calvin and Servetus, another on the Neo-Gnostic claim, and another one on whether we teach that God is the author of sin.


http://freedthinkerpodcast.blogspot.com/

That's a ridiculous response filled with many false accusations. Thanks?

You're right though, you don't understand it.

Thanks for stepping in to call those of us who know and believe that God elects based on nothing good in us, but only by unmerited favor, a thing we call grace, arrogant people as you suggested.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31? Study it out.

The only reason any are saved is because God predestined and elected to save whom he wills, Romans 8:26ff, Ephesians 1 &c; Romans 9. Since you've claimed the classic "anti evangelistic" accusation you may want to read and study how Paul the Calvinist saw and was confident in evangelization because God has his people, the elect, out there whom he will save; Acts 18:9-10; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

In your diatribe you've called all those who died violent deaths for the cause of Christ arrogant, for they preached this same message, being Reformed, died for preaching this message of Christ you've assaulted.

You may want to go read some on Whitefield, John Bunyan, John Hus, Justyn Martyr, William Tyndale, all who embraced election, some died violent deaths for preaching this Gospel.

Your claim of arrogance, and anti evangelism, fear, doubt, they are all unfounded. Oh, and one last thing, we are more interested in him, not our belief system, something that has driven us to seek him out, and these truths he's revealed about himself. Its really sad seeing you take such swipes at us as you have.

@CharliRenee

This is from @preacher4truth ...

Quoted by @preacher4truth ...


“That's a ridiculous response filled with many false accusations. Thanks?

You're right though, you don't understand it.

Thanks for stepping in to call those of us who know and believe that God elects based on nothing good in us, but only by unmerited favor, a thing we call grace, arrogant people as you suggested.

1 Corinthians 1:26-31? Study it out.

The only reason any are saved is because God predestined and elected to save whom he wills, Romans 8:26ff, Ephesians 1 &c; Romans 9. Since you've claimed the classic "anti evangelistic" accusation you may want to read and study how Paul the Calvinist saw and was confident in evangelization because God has his people, the elect, out there whom he will save; Acts 18:9-10; 2 Timothy 2:8-10.

In your diatribe you've called all those who died violent deaths for the cause of Christ arrogant, for they preached this same message, being Reformed, died for preaching this message of Christ you've assaulted.

You may want to go read some on Whitefield, John Bunyan, John Hus, Justyn Martyr, William Tyndale, all who embraced election, some died violent deaths for preaching this Gospel.

Your claim of arrogance, and anti evangelism, fear, doubt, they are all unfounded. Oh, and one last thing, we are more interested in him, not our belief system, something that has driven us to seek him out, and these truths he's revealed about himself. Its really sad seeing you take such swipes at us as you have.”

Another person here told me to watch Gene Kim videos against Calvinism to educate myself.

Gene Kim is a Ruckmanite.

Even though Anderson is a nut, I think his critique of him was funny.

A lot of people here are not very discerning regarding the figures they listen to. If anyone doubts it, watch this video

These sorts of guys (IFB KJV Only guys) are like piranhas on a cannibalistic frenzy.

Also like one member said,a Calvinist might be looking In a glass mirror for their GOD and realize they are looking at him.

Why pray for another's salvation if God doesn't interfere with their will?

By the way, God ordains both the means and the ends. That's what free-willers conveniently "forget" when they bring up your arguments.

I in no way meant to attack you or anyone.

I was just giving my thoughts to unconditional election, not on those who believe it.

I saw this when he wrote it, but clearly my response offended him and you too. I was just giving my thoughts, had no intention to be confrontational.

He is right, I don't understand unconditional election. It does not make sense to me. It doesn't and that is my truth. I was not making false accusations. I was just explaining why it didn't make sense to me.

This is what we do here.

Listen, I come in peace.

I apologize if I have insulted you or preacher, that is something I never want to do. I stand by what I said ,though, because I was just speaking my mind on this particular belief, not coming against people.

Listen, I just want to say that we Christ followers believe we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, that He is the way and the truth and the life. I may not be right about the unconditional election. I make room for that possibility. I hope that I never stop learning.

For now though... well, you already know where I stand.

He is the one that wil present us blameless before God. I am so grateful.

In the meantime, God Bless you and yours.

Thanks for your response...

Though the things you said about those who believe this biblical doctrine were unwarranted, I accept your apology.

I also want to say for the record there is no knowing of him outside his revealed word, it is not a mystical or subjective means by which we know him, it is through revealed truth in the word. To mitigate doctrine is to mitigate what he has revealed. 1 Timothy 4:16. Proverbs 23:23.

I would ask you to carefully read Exodus 33:12-23 where Moses requested a more intimate walk with God and knowledge of him. It may shock you, but God's answer was to tell Moses (and us) a certain thing about himself, and it is his unconditional election; Exodus 33:19. This is why we glory in him and this truth, and humbly, not arrogantly. It is to know him by what he reveals, and that is precious and comforting.

Thank you for that.

I tend to believe the non-Reformed folk are deistic are best, full blown deists at worst. Here’s what I mean. Deism teaches an impersonal god created all we see, set it into motion and sets back and watches it unfold. Whenever the non-Reformed say God allows evil to happen, that’s no different than saying God sits back and does nothing to stop it. Things like the holocaust, the many times Israel was taken captive by other pagan nations, the fall of Adam, God sat back and let it happen. That’s deism. All things serve a purpose in God’s decreed will. There are several things we’re not privy to. We are called to trust Him, not know all the details.

I wonder how do they pray for their lost loved ones.

"Father, I have family, friends, precious loved ones who are lost. Will you Father please save them? Wait, if You do that, then You would have to override their free will. You are a good God, One who is a Gentleman, who will never force anyone to be saved. The doorknob is on the inside and You will not kick it down."

***Starts prayer over again***

"Father, I have family, friends, precious loved ones who are lost. Will You work a way into their lives where you don't violate their free will, but You draw them to Yourself? Wait, the Greek word for 'draw' is 'helko' and that means to literally drag off. So if You do that, then You are dragging them kicking and screaming against their wills. So Father, will You please open their eyes, ears, and hearts...wait, if You do that without first gaining their consent, then You are violating their free will again. Father, will you please help them in a way that does not violate their free will? Will you work in a way that you gain their approval and assistance in You saving them? Only You know how to save them and not violate their free will. In Jesus' name, amen!"

Since God offers grace TO ALL, it is arrogant to teach that He offers grace to an elect few. Since Christ died for all, grace, pardon, and salvation are offered to all without exception. That's the meaning of "WHOSOEVER".

BTW,although It's true ,that was a joke

My comment is not what I believe but what UWC had stated.

I in no way meant to attack you or anyone.

I was just giving my thoughts to unconditional election, not on those who believe it.

I saw this when he wrote it, but clearly my response offended him and you too. I was just giving my thoughts, had no intention to be confrontational.

He is right, I don't understand unconditional election. It does not make sense to me. It doesn't and that is my truth. I was not making false accusations. I was just explaining why it didn't make sense to me.

This is what we do here.

Listen, I come in peace.

I apologize if I have insulted you or preacher, that is something I never want to do. I stand by what I said ,though, because I was just speaking my mind on this particular belief, not coming against people.

Listen, I just want to say that we Christ followers believe we are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, that He is the way and the truth and the life. I may not be right about the unconditional election. I make room for that possibility. I hope that I never stop learning.

For now though... well, you already know where I stand.

He is the one that wil present us blameless before God. I am so grateful.

In the meantime, God Bless you and yours.

In regards to God's decrees, I view them as either passive or active. God actively decrees certain things, causing them to occur, and he passively decrees other things by allowing them to happen.

I get your reference to deism, though. They are forced into that position by their theology. If they don't believe there is an elect group, and that Jesus atoned for their sins, and the Holy Spirit applies this effectively to all the elect, and the rest simply aren't


Yeah, seems inconsistent.

However, I want to be clear that my position is that God regenerates the sinner, giving them a heart of flesh and changing their nature so that they desire Him. This is what leads to faith and repentance. So, I don't consider that God violates their will but changes their nature and their will falls in line.

Somehow even that is supposed to be a violent act, akin to rape, in their eyes though. Imagine the tragedy of restoring man to his created purpose, to worship and love his Creator

Instead, they insist upon decisional regeneration..that man must dredge up faith and repentance from his stony heart, in order to receive a heart of flesh. How coherent is that?

I’ve heard(and once believed) God has an active and passive decree. I don’t see Him being passive, but active in them. But I am willing to learn. What ya got to change my mind?

God is not the Author of sin.

Yet sin exists.

Because of Gods Passive Will it exists.

Gods Active Will only creates that which is Good.

Gods Passive Will allows things that are seemingly against (for the time being) His Active Will.


That's my understanding.