Is unconditional election biblical?

2 Cor. 5:18-19.

18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19 namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

The ‘us’ properly understood is believers. Also take note that those who are being reconciled to God do not have their trespasses counted against them. So, world can not mean ‘everybody whoever lived’ as many died, are dying now, and will die later, whose sins haven’t been remitted. They die w/o ever being reconciled.

1 How blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, Whose sin is covered! 2 How blessed is the man to whom the LORD does not impute iniquity, And in whose spirit there is no deceit![Psalm 32]

“BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT.”[Romans 4:8]

So, according to these three places, only those who have been reconciled are not having their sins accounted unto them. How so? The Christ atoned for them on the cross.

What has been said about your joke inventory that hasn't already been said about Afghanistan?

It looks bombed out and depleted.

I found this quite amusing, albeit absolutely true:

I feel you bro. Don't worry bro i've been called much worse After i've been stabbed words hardly make a dent on me!

I was just trying to nudge you guys towards squashing the beef.

Then you truly don't know what the Lord has accomplished in the Atonement.

The Blood of the Lamb has cleansed us of all sins.

This Blood is SUFFICIENT for all but this Blood is not EFFICACIOUS for all.

Meaning that the ACTUAL Atonement is LIMITED to believers. Unbelievers do not receive Atonement.


If All sins have been Atoned for by the Blood of Christ then there is nothing for the world to be saved FROM. If the Atonement is Limited to believers then only believers are cleansed from their sins and therefore saved.

Reminds me of another poster er two. Er three, er more. On another thread. Concerning a different "topic."

Well, I would think so too.

But then people keep implying Universal Atonement. But then backtrack and say the Atonement is for all but only applied to those who believe.

Well then by their own words the Atonement is Limited to those who believe. Exactly what has been stated.

People that believe that Jesus died for all, even for those who don't believe. Must be "books" believers, or seekers! According to this verse in the Revelation:
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and (then) another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

But, this is the "Great White Throne Judgement."

Funny, they would wish to wait until then! Ain't it?

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. I John 2:2

neither myself nor any other non-Calvinist responding in this thread has EVER stated that we believe salvation is universal; however the Bible itself does state that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world

repeating your Calvinist doctrine over and over and falsely accusing people of saying things they did not say nor intend, does not hold any water unless of course you are baptized in the Calvin method of debate which includes repeating something longer and louder than anyone else so as to sound credible

this statement of yours:
suggests that stating Jesus died for all automatically equates to salvation for all...ie universalism

that was the entire debate yesterday and reading the posts made, anyone can see that. apparently you prefer to create a post that consists of mainly untrue statements of things I said and the other calvinists gather round to help you out

I find that behavior typical of Calvinist threads and the vitriol and nastiness that accompanies it is also typical

it is plain what I said and your devious responses are also very apparent

no one has said that the atonement covers non-believers

your conclusion is therefore that we all actually believe what Calvin teaches

however, the Bible plainly refutes Calvinism by stating Jesus died for the sins of the world

and I have stated mulitple times in this and other threads, as have others, that only those who accept Christ and believe as per scripture, are saved

in your economy, it would seem personal attacks against others, myself this time around, are equal to scripture

intimidation is not scripture and your opinions are not either. there is nothing above that you could not apply to yourself while looking real hard into your own eyes in a mirror

we do not have the same understanding of grace but it appears you have understood Calvins' idea of grace which is actually what this entire thing is about

I have never 'gone after you'. that is your inflated ego talking. I very much disagree with your TULIP beliefs and it seems you hold those who do so in such distain that you loose better judgement and must attack them personally rather than try to stick to the actual topic at hand

for someone who holds no grudge, you seem to be referring to some incident that actually appears to have created such a grudge that you bring it up again. whatever

Calvinists are BLIND TO THE FACT that while Christ died for the sins of the whole world, only those who obey the Gospel will be saved.

They simply cannot understand the grace of God since they sincerely (and mistakenly) believe that the Gospel is about the sovereignty of God, even though Scripture says otherwise.

TITUS 2 -- GOD'S GRACE TO ALL MANKIND
11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

what I see is limited understanding to what I wrote, never mind limited anything else

John plainly states that Jesus died for the sins of the world...not just those who would be saved

John the Baptist states that Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world

when understood in light of the fact that no one is saved automatically, nor are they forced to be saved in spite of themself, it is understood by most believers to mean that while Jesus died for all, as scripture states, all will not come to salvation

somehow, I see Calvinists mocking what is written about John 3:16. it is incredible that anyone could read that or study that and conclude it does not say what it plainly states.

WHOSOEVER WILL.. Calvin has no say in the matter and neither does anyone else no matter how much they deny it or mock the correct understanding

your reference to universalism is duly noted but that is your reference and not at all what I said or believe

it becomes apparent the more I study it and see how Calvinists react to any rebuttal to what they believe

Look to the OT for a type. The brazen serpent was carried throughout the camp but only those who looked upon it recovered from the snake bites that were killing them. Don't look and die or look and live. Choices must be made.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Because w/o the atonement there could be no reconciliation.

yes. but just because atonement is made doesnt mean you are reconciled. you have to receive it.
be ye reconciled

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Jesus had already died, but these people werent saved unlesss they believed the gospel. when they believe they are reconciled. before they believe their sins are atoned for already, but not forgiven until they believe.

this is so easy to understand dont know how you guys dont get it. its all over the bible. nothing complicated about it-

Again, either the atonement is efficacious or it isn’t.

With the atonement came reconciliation, correct? Which means two former enemies have become friends. It was through the cross His ppl became reconciled, correct?

Now, how so? The atonement also satisfied God’s wrath. He is satisfied with the work of His Son’ s cross work. If He is satisfied with it and His wrath is satisfied, then the cross was efficacious for those it was intended for.

So, if the cross was for everybody w/o exception, then God’s wrath for everybody w/o exception has been satisfied. Meaning, on the day of judgment, He has no wrath to mete out.

So, the cross doesn’t save unless they do something?