Not By Works

posting verses for emphasis

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
---------------

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

--------------
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

1Co 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

-------------

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

----------------

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

-------------

Joh 19:6 When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
Joh 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

----------

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

iymus, please give your insights into John 1v1. Thanks.

He is the Son of God. The one who sent him and will he does is God. why can that not be a satisfactory answer? Below are supporting verses.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

So you use reasoning like this to say Jesus is not God?

Heard it before...😅 out of context verses to try and claim He specifically states He is not God.... (when He does not)


You can't accept "The mighty God, The everlasting Father" is Jesus...

Isaiah 9:6
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


You should go check out @posthuman 's thread "Christ is God" i believe it is called.....

More than enough solid proof is there (scripture used in context) for someone actually seeking truth in the matter.


If you choose to disagree we can end the discussion.

You said to @EleventhHour "
yet wonder if this person can prove her claims.?
yet wonder if this person can prove that I do not believe in Christ as the scripture hath said." When her claim was that you do not believe Christ is God....


So I asked you....

You have admitted to not believing Christ is God....


The main topic of this thread is that our own actions can not and will not justify anyone before God, and we are saved by grace through faith.

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14
And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Jesus is God.

You did not answer the QUESTION.

DO YOU BELIEVE JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE, or only the Offspring of GOD.


John 1:1 (ESV)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 (YLT)
14 And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth.


Just for your personal INFO, SON of GOD, is A TITLE of WHO the Father says will inherit everything HE POSSESSES, INCLUDING HIS DEITY.
According to Jewish LAW, a father can GIVE the Inheritance TITLE to ANYONE he Chooses, and from the MOMENT ON, even a servant has the right to CALL HIMSELF SON OF JOSEPH, or whatever the man's name is. that Choose to give the TITLE to someone other than his first born son. Therefore GOD CHOSE TO GIVE THE TITLE TO THE SECOND PERSON OF THE HOLY TRINITY, as the one who would receive everything HE possesses, including his DEITY, even though HE WILL NEVER DIE. Therefore SON OF GOD IS THE TITLE of INHERITANCE that shows HE HAS ALL From the FATHER, including HIS DEITY, and is in NO WAY a designation of OFFSPRING.


Matthew 11:27 (NKJV)
27 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

Luke 10:22 (NKJV)
22 All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him."

John 14:9-11 (NASB)
9 Jesus *said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.
11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

2 Corinthians 5:19-20 (HCSB)
19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us.
20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf,
“Be reconciled to God.”

2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV)
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Philippians 2:5-6 (NKJV)
5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,
6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

Were You NOT by the Number 26 font in add to your faith, trying to imply we out of our power make our FAITH better.

If so, I am disagreeing with you, because IT IS CHRIST in control of us that COMPLETES OUR FAITH to PERFECTION in the glorified body, not self.

Nothing unexpected there.

Then, please, show me in your own terms line by line what that portion of scripture means - to your understanding. All I ask is that you don't glance over or leave anything out. You are one of the few here who actually (at least) compiles scriptures to support your assertions (I appreciate that approach). Please then, take me through this passage to your understanding.

I do not have to prove ... you have by your own words in several places denied that Jesus is God.
False premise

Long winded version

1. First and Foremost the Word is the beginning of the creation of God yesterday, today, and forever.
John bare record/ testified that the word is the Son of God

supporting verses

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

------------------------------------------------------

2. Also John said he saw the Son of God in verse 34 but 16 verses above he said No Man "which would includes himself" hath seen God at any time.

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
--------------------------------------------------

3. The concept of Father is an Originator or Source.

as the firstborn and beginning offspring of my earthly father I was given life in the 1980s however my earthly father must have predated the 1980s in order to give life to me.

"Trying to say Before the Beginning or Beginning of his creation their was no time."

"John 5:26" should allude that life originates from The Father of Spirits himself who is the Source or Originator otherwise known as Ancient of Days.

these concepts are clearly seen being understood by the things that are made to include his authority and divinity.

Heb 12:9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

Joh 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
-------------------------------------------

4. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with The Father, and the Word was The Father.

The word was the Father, because the Father gave all things into his hand, and with that authority all things were made by him and without him was not anything that was made.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Joh 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

------------------

5. The Lord our God never was God, always is, or has been God.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

------------

6. Creation was not of the will, authority, or authorized by The Son but of The Father. It all came from the one greater than him. Creation is of The Lord our God The Father especially considering he is lord of heaven and earth

The Son did not begat but is begotten of the one that begat.

1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Joh 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

1Jn 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Act 17:24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;

------------------------------

7. God used his beginning of creation by whom he made the worlds; but still will, authority, ideas, plans, etc of The Father. Because all things are of Him.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

-------------------------

8. Thus saith The Lord our God The Father "his authority, his will, his works, etc".
There is no us or we in I.
There is no us or we in himself

Isa 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Isa 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

Isa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else.

---------------------

9. Before the Father their was no God formed, neither shall them be after him. Jesus came forth from him neither came of himself. Also the Lord God our Father gave him the kingdom of his early father David.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 13:3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

--------------------

10. Forgot to mention above; "Joh 1:2" is confirmation that the word was with God in the beginning.

In essence :John 1:2" does not say The Same was in the beginning God.

I am reminded that likely "all things were created by him, and for him: " in that context because God "hath appointed heir of all things"

Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

11. But once again Creation was not authorized or the will of the Son, it was not his works, or authority. One has to look at the volume of the book

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Joh 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

12. And one cannot forget the end. it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

1Co 15:27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

But you didn’t even touch John 1:1

very interesting. you have insight to see that scripture denies that Jesus is the Most High our God but your biasness will not allow you to accept it.

verses for emphasis below

Joh 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Mat 16:13 When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.



2Co 11:31 The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is blessed for evermore, knoweth that I lie not.

Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

Joh 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
Joh 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

Perhaps your Spirit is willing yet your flesh is weak. rebuke principalities and powers. read it again. i numbered and divided it a bit but won't tell you which number is which. Out of 100 that will read perhaps only two will grasp it anyways.

Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.

I know that Jesus IS the Most High our God..... and if your were born again you would know it too.

And these scriptures confirm this reality and all your proof texts do not deny the divinity of Jesus they provide further understanding the roles of the Father and the Son ... co equal and co eternal

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM”; and He said, “Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”

“…He who has seen Me has seen the Father.” (John 14:9)

Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” (John 8:58)

“You call Me Teacher and Lord; and you are right, for so I am.” (John 13:13)

“…that you may know and understand that the Father is in Me, and I in the Father." (John 10:38)

I have explained that verse a NUMBER of times on this thread.

We are BORN AGAIN, We consume the Heavenly Gift, and We are INDWELT by the Holy Spirit, and HUNGER FOR MORE OF THE WORD.

Not just Tasted the heavenly gift,
Not just a Partaker without being INDWELT,
Not only Tasted of the good word of GOD.


That is a disciple {means only follower} that have NEVER BEEN BORN AGAIN.

Just Like These:

John 6:66 (NIV)
66 From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.

THEREFORE THIS VERSE REMAINS ABSOLUTELY TRUE:

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


I don't think that you realize that in the Parable of the Gates, HE is only talking about people who think they are Disciples, and only the Narrow Gate, are true Born Again Christians.

Matthew 7:13-14 (HCSB)
13 “Enter through the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the road is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who go through it.
14 How narrow is the gate and difficult the road that leads to life, and few find it.


Matthew 7:20-23 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’ [NOTICE: every one on that road thinks they are Christian, but NONE of them are Born Again Believers.]
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’

That ‘I never knew you!' is a reference to Born Again, when you get to KNOW HIM, in an inner, personal way, as LORD of your LIFE.

John 3:3 (HCSB)
3 Jesus replied, “I assure you: Unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

How many Non-Born Again disciples get to go to HEAVEN? NONE!

No, you are not referring to the right verse. I am talking about this one below. I am asking you to comment line by line so that I can get an understanding of how you see it:

2 Peter 1
5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control [d]perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither [e]barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins. 10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

1Co 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

1Co 6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.

your bias has no foundation and is not in alignment with the oracles of God and volume of the book.

This is essentially what you are doing:

5+5 = 10 yes

5*5 = 25 yes

However 5+5*5 equals 30.

But you are arguing with me that it is 50.

The reason 5+5*5 is equal to 30 is because the foundation or order of operations or natural order is that you are required to multiply before you add. it does not matter that we read left to right in the English language. the order of operations or foundation is precedent / expedient.

the Commandments of God or Love of God or will and works of The Father all trump the Triniarian doctine of men or interpretations of man.

The Trinitarians doctrine of Men is a man made creed not a commandment of God.

Therefore Deu 6:4 trumps which is the first part of the greatest commandment trumps it

Therefore the will of the Father trumps it.

Jesus never said that he is I AM That I Am. That lie needs to stop being told


If I AM THAT I AM were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from If I AM THAT I AM; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Is what John 8:42 would equate to.

Joh 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
Joh 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Joh 8:54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:

Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

-----------------------------------

It only breaks my heart that you are not going to get it.

Go back and really read my Posts from the resent past.

I have been through this MANY TIMES with other people.

Here are a few of those verses, and if you don't believe these few, then I doubt if you would listen to any of the rest of the verses I could post.


Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (HCSB)
13 For it is God who is working in you, ⌊enabling you⌋ both to desire and to work out His good purpose.

Ephesians 1:11-14 (HCSB)
11 We have also received an inheritance in Him, predestined according to the purpose of the One who works out everything in agreement with the decision of His will,
12 so that we who had already put our hope in the Messiah might bring praise to His glory.
13 When you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and when you believed in Him, you were also sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.
14 He is the down payment of our inheritance, for the redemption of the possession, to the praise of His glory.

2 Timothy 2:19 (ESV)
19 But God’s firm foundation stands, bearing this seal: “The Lord knows those who are his,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.”

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 (HCSB)
19 Don’t you know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God? You are not your own,
20 for you were bought at a price. Therefore glorify God in your body.

John 20:28-29
And Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

29Jesus said to him, [f]“Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”