If we are going to keep the SABBATH the 7th day, in HEAVEN, Why are not people keeping it now ???

My parents really didn't go to church that I remember. My Aunt took me to SDA church with her kids so that is what I know.

Ellen White did not claim to be a prophet.

The stance of the SDA church is not in favor of abortion just read a legal document stating such, however, they realize that members may be confronted with a hard choice and do not ostracise or cut them off from being a church member if they may have had an abortion.

I can't answer for what any hospital no matter affiliation does at the facility and to hear you go on about it we are all guilty if it is done in a hospital affiliated with the church.

I just find it annoying when anyone goes on about anything in an attack mode with an I know all about them mentallity when they also claim they haven't read anything by the person or church they are attacking... Now if you told me you were a long time member and changed your direction but had actually studied and read and really know about what you are talking about then I probably would not be in a defense stance. But I feel that you are unfairly attacking a denomination that you really know little about on a personal level.

God is pro choice and what I mean by that is that He give us free choice to make decisions good or bad but has given us guidelines in the form of the 10 commandments to go by on what He would like for us to choose. God does not force us to do what He would like for us to choose to do.

If you feel that Ellen is a false prophet then prove and make sure you know that she is a false prophet again I would suggest you read The Desire of Ages which is about Jesus and then tell me that a woman who never claimed to be a prophet is a false prophet. But ya won't do it even though you would benefit reading about the life of Jesus.

Again I don't usually defend Ellen as personally the Bible is the Book we need to apply to our lives. Some of the quotes you are putting out are books that were compiled and not written from first to last word by Ellen they were articles she had written that someone put together like articles and made a book.

Books like Desire of Ages, Patriarchs and Prophets are ones she wrote as a book and not compiled by someone in the foundation of her writings.

Do you realize what SDAs teach?

Their church is the true church.

They may acknowledge that others are Christians, but in essence, they are "other sheep". They aren't the true church.

And, Sunday observance places one under the Mark of the Beast. They believe that Sunday observers will eventually hunt them down and attempt to get them to abandon the Sabbath after a Sunday Law is enacted.

I have never been associated with them. I am an Armstrongite, though, and they got much of their false doctrines from the Seventh Day Adventists. Sabbathkeepers of almost all stripes share some common claims as a result.

By the way, I know the agenda of SDAs is to convert people to their religion....one of the SDAs on the forum openly told me so..he was a friend of mine. At one point, he bragged about the number of folks he convinced concerning Sabbathkeeping.

I'm not passing judgment on them, because I don't know their spiritual state. I don't know whether they repented at the last minute, either. However I'm on a forum where there are individuals with the agenda to prove evangelical Christianity is false, amongst other things, and spreading misinformation.

Maybe in your postmodern view, I shouldn't be doing that. Tough

For the record, even though my wife is an SDA I don't believe that they are the 'true' church either, but rather just another body of believers in Christ. Jesus said that wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in His name He would be in the midst of them.

You are correct about the Sunday observance being associated with the mark of the beast. I don't believe this to be accurate because as it now stands, most people in the world don't even attend church regardless of the day being Saturday or Sunday.

However, the SDA do believe that salvation comes from contrite confession of sin, Jesus dying of the cross for the remission of sin and that by inviting the Holy Spirit to live inside you He will comfort and guide you in the lifelong repentance process.

Many years ago I used to read the Plain Truth, a monthly magazine put out by the World Wide Church of God. Interesting reading but not really scripturally sound.

Yes, the Sabbath is a core belief of the SDA. Since the forth commandment states to 'remember' to keep holy the Sabbath, this doctrine has spiritual basis that merits serious consideration in my opinion. Yeah, they got a lot of dietary rules that the members are urged to follow but also say that it is not a sin if one choses to disregard them.

As a denomination I would have to say that the SDA is a spiritually sound body of believers but what do I know since I was born and raised a Catholic. That particular denomination has its share of spiritual issues as well but there is a firm spiritual correct salvation message, Yeah, they throw in a lot of side issues that are spiritually suspect as well that distract from the gospel message.

So what happened to those jots and tittles?

You say because they were "on the side" of the ark you can just throw them out?

Weren't they AT LEAST considered jots and tittles?


Matthew 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.


I don't have any problem with you choosing your favorite OT Laws to try and obey. I think its even a little cute that you actually think you are keeping them.

I just think it should bother you that some of the scripture you use to justify your position actually shows you that the Law is an ALL or NOTHING deal.

You either trust in your performance at the law 100%.

Or you trust in your performance 0% but rather trust in Christ and His Performance.


Seems like an easy decision to me. But I've already made it.



SDA's are correct in thinking that Sabbath is the make or break line between who is a saved Christian and who is not. But this Rest is in Christ and is not a Law to be observed.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

How do you guys miss this such an important fundamental part of Christianity?

(You know Sabbath means Rest, right?)



In the same way that the Lord has fulfilled the jots and tittles of sacrifice He has also fulfilled the jots and tittles of Sabbath. This was prophesied in Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

2 Corinthians 3:5-6
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.



This all seems really straightforward and simple to me. If you look to the Law to try and work at it and be obedient to it that way is DEATH. You can't do it. It doesn't give you the Righteousness needed in order to be in the Presence of God.

If you look to Christ and receive Salvation and Rest you will receive the Righteousness necessary to be in Gods Kingdom.


Shouldn't your work at the law already have shown you this?

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.


We're justified by faith. We are made Righteous by faith. The law can't do any of these things for us. All it can do is condemn and drive you to a SAVIOUR.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.


I'm just thankful that there are a few Christians who have read the bible for themselves and have this fundamental understanding of what Christianity truly is. Like the Bereans.

Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the SABBATH from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. [Blessed is the man, not just the Jews,] There is nothing in the BIBLE that changed the SABBATH, If it was HOLY then, it is HOLY NOW. sunday is a working day in the BIBLE, And is NOT HOLY at ALL,

This is how I see it. Let me know what yous all think.

The first six days of creation there was morning and there was evening.
The seventh day does not end with there was morning and there was evening.
Because of his sins man is stuck in the seventh day. The Sabbath shows man this.
Man is stuck in a cycle. 1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...1,2,3,4,5,6 7, rest and repeat...
Man is stuck in the 7th day.
God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, instead of leaving man and moving on to the 8th creation day without man, God has chosen to wait with man in the 7th day, and rest from His creating. Because of this God commanded man to honor Him by also resting/waiting on the Sabbath ( every 7th day)

Jesus lived a sinless life, rose from the dead, and broke through to the 8th day

day 1----------day 2----------day 3----------day 4---------day 5---------day 6---------day 7--------day 8
Sun ------------Mon-----------Tues-----------Wed----------Thurs-----------Fri-----------Sat-----------Sun
10th-------------------------------------------------------------14th--------------------------------------Resurrection

Day 1 = Palm Sunday where the people chose Jesus
Day 1 = 10th day when the people chose the passover lamb

Day 4 = 14th day Killing of the passover lamb (blood) and eating flesh of lamb and eating unleavened (bread)
Day 4 = Jesus institutes new ordinance the Lord's Supper eating wine (blood) and eating (bread) which no longer has to be unleavened for He has Risen.

Jesus is then sacrificed on the next day after replacing the Passover meal with the Lord's supper.
Jesus rests in the grave the entire 7th day (symbolic of sabbath rest).
Jesus Christ breaks the 7 day cycle and rises from the dead on the 8th day.

Those who are in Christ Jesus have the promise of being created anew on the 8th day.
Although we still live in the 7th day, those who are in Christ Jesus have received the promise of the 8th day. Therefore honoring the Sabbath is no longer required for those who are in Christ, because like Christ they too have the promise of the 8th day.

GODs work WAS all done at the evening Of the SIXETH day. THE seveneth DAY is a Memorial of HIS creation, A day set aside to get to know HIM on. There is not no 8th day, GOD bless as HE sees fit

Scripture is used to demonstrate many dogmas, some of the which are false. It is the Holy Spirit that gives life and understanding to what is written, not a spiritless interpretation.

Colossians 2:14 is talking about a recording of the sins of the believers,.....Colossians 2:14 14 by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
(ESV)

Colossians 2:14 2:14 the charge of our legal indebtedness. Paul uses the metaphor of a legal bond or certificate of debt (an IOU) in which humans promise to obey what they know to be God’s will (cf. Rom 1:32). It becomes our death warrant when we fail to obey (cf. Rom 3:23) because we cannot possibly repay the debt. But God blotted out the list of debts and destroyed all the incriminating evidence against us when Christ was nailed on the cross in our place. Christ took away the burden of our guilt. Believers receive the verdict of his righteousness. (NIV Biblical Theology Study Bible)

No it’s not. Those are really bad paraphrases. They ignore the word translated ordinances in the KJV completely.

yes, because the Sabbath MUST be kept to be saved , right?

i mean, that is what you and the other judeaizers ( liars) say...

The SABBATH GO's BACK TO creation, Not to MOSES Hand writings, Which was a shadow, But the SABBATH is HOLY unto the LORD, And We will even KEEP it in the NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH,ISAIAH 66:22-23, I HOPE GOD straighten you out ON walking on HIS HOLY SABBATH DAY, GOD made it HOLY and it is STILL HOLY, AND THERES IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT UNHOLY, BUT FOR yourself, GOD blessed it and it will remain BLESSED, PRAISE GOD FOR HIS SABBATH DAY. Isaiah 56:2 BLESSED IS THE MAN, NOT JEWS THAT receives HIS SABBATH, The Sabbath was before there was JEWS, JESUS says that the Sabbath was for MAN, Again man and not JEWS.
GOD bless as HE sees fit

What do you mean that you can not pay the DEBT, GOD says YOU can pay it to, YOU just can't PAY IT AND live.
the WAGES OF SIN IS death, so YOU CAN pay THE debt, SO you just WOULD, HAFT to die to pay it, SO yes WE can pay it, But GOD wanted us to LIVE, SO HE paid it for us if we would repent, and Quit sinning. TO turn away from sin, 1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the Devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning, For this purpose the Son of GOD was manifested, that HE might destroy the works of the devil. As long as we continue in sin, JESUS HAS not destroyed the sin that is in us, By repenting and turning away from our sins, JESUS destroys the sin that is in us, through repentance. And HIS death, You are trying to say that we don't haft to KEEP the commandments, THEN YOU DON'T have any thing to REPENT OF ,BECAUSE WITHOUT the COMMANDMENTS YOU CAN NOT SIN AGAINST GOD. And if there is no more Commandments, Then JESUS has more, REASON TO punish the lost ether, FOR that is what makes them lost. THE wages of their sins. IS death, NO commandments, NO sins, Sins remain BECAUSE the COMMANDMENTS still REMAIN,
1 peter 4:18 AND If the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear???????
GOD bless as HE sees fit
GOD bless as he sees fit

In regards to Isaiah 66:22-23, this merely teaches that from month to month and from week to week, God’s people will worship Him. In the new heaven and the new earth, we read there will have no need of the sun or moon, there will be no night there, but one perpetual day and the glory of God will illuminate it. (Revelation 21:23-25). How then could there be a cycle of seven days that would allow for literally keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law? The Isaiah passage simply means that God’s people will perpetually worship Him in contrast to keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law.

Furthermore, if you insist on sabbath observances based on Isaiah 66:23, then you also need to observe new moons as well. Yet from what I hear, most Sabbatarian’s don’t observe new moons, which is inconsistent. New moons require night, hence Sabbatarians have night in heaven, yet there is no day and night cycles in heaven. You cannot have "new moon to new moon" or "sabbath days" without day and night, so your argument is moot. Will there be Levital priests in the new heaven? If Isaiah 66:23 teaches that we will keep the sabbath day in the new heaven, then it also teaches in Isaiah 66:21 that the Levitical priests will be in the new heaven, because it is also mentioned. What happened to the Levitical priesthood under the new covenant terms? Priesthood changed so did the law. Hebrews 7:12 - For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also. *The old and new covenants do not mix.

In regards to Isaiah 56:2, foreigners were to "join themselves to the Lord;" and "love the name of the Lord;" and "be his servants;" and "take hold of God's covenant." The OLD COVENANT. But to do this they had to be circumcised, for God said: “No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh, of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary." (Ezekiel 44:9). When Gentiles thus "joined themselves to the Lord" they CEASED BEING GENTILES and became proselytes to the Jewish religion. They kept the Sabbath AS JEWISH PROSELYTES, NOT as Gentiles.

But WHERE ARE GENTILES as Gentiles ever commanded to keep the Sabbath? Furthermore, if the Sabbath was of universal application, why were the Gentiles called "strangers?" The apostle Paul, speaking of the Gentiles during the Jewish age, says they were "strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world?" (Ephesians 2:12).

And when God gave the Sabbath commandment at Sinai, why did he make it binding ONLY on "the stranger that is within your gates?" (Exodus 20:10). Where is the passage that proves the Sabbath was binding on the Gentile OUTSIDE the gates? All this shows the Sabbath was NOT universally applied. If it had been, there would have been no "strangers from the covenants of promise."

*The Word of God makes it quite clear that Sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel:“The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested” (Exodus 31:16-17).

*In Deuteronomy 5, Moses restates the Ten Commandments to the next generation of Israelites. Here, after commanding Sabbath observance in verses 12–14, Moses gives the reason the Sabbath was given to the nation Israel: “Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.” (Deuteronomy 5:15)

Just BECAUSE it says you will HAVE no need of the sun, don't mean that there's not GOING to be one, And there are more than one place that tells us that there will BE, And it dose say FROM ONE SABATH TO another, When GOD SAYS SOMETHING THAT SHOULD SATTLE IT,
And you AND ME proibly HAVE a lot of things that we don't realy NEED,
GOD BLESS as HE sees fit

No it’s not. Those are really bad paraphrases. They ignore the word translated ordinances in the KJV completely.

I really don't know what a postmodern view is. In my opinion you should be doing exactly what you are led to do by the Holy Spirt. I have no doubt whatsoever that this is exactly what you are doing and while I don't always agree with you I find that to be commendable.