Refuting The Cessationism Doctrine: Spiritual Gifts, Tongues, Miracles Haven’t Ceased Since Pentecost!!

I have stated my argument and you don't want to accept it. So we agree to disagree.

How is your argument an argument for cessationism? There have been Jews since the first century and there are Jews today. Doesn't Romans 11 apply to them now just as it did back then?

the gospel of the kingdom is no longer valid by the end of acts 28.

Now all of us come to salvation by the gospel of grace summed up by 1 cor 15:1-4.

So if signs and wonders are essential for the kingdom gospel, it ceased when that gospel ceased

That is why after we are raptured, the gospel of the kingdom would restart, you will see signs and wonders again, as stated in Matthew 24:24 and revelations 11

Scripture states it is by the foolishness of preaching not signs and wonders. Scripture also states that in the end times they will not endure sound doctrine but heap to themselves teachers having itching ears.

Jesus saw the masses depart when He gave them sound doctrine. He went from thousands down to a handful of disciples.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Pr 25:14 Whoso boasteth himself of a false gift is like clouds and wind without rain.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

I think it was about Judaism (the law of the fathers) before his conservation to Christianity . Before when he was murdering the Christians.Paul as Saul did go to all the right schools feet of Gamaliel. . and had a false zeal for understanding God by faith .Coming from a pagan background (Judaism) .Out of sight out of mind . (no faith) Kill the mis-perceived competition .Like Cain in the field .Plowed under the first recorded martyr, prophet, apostle . . . Abel .

Judaism defined below....

I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day. And I persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished.Acts 22: 3-4

Carbon copy of the fifteenth century reformation. .The Pope gave out letters of authorization as well as Judaism that guaranteed a place in heaven .

Just different names for the fleshly fathers. Judaism in respect to the corrupted flesh of Abraham and corrupted Peter in regard to Catholicism

you don't have to worry about that you are not giving sound doctrine you are sowing discord

remember that and start applying it to your life because when the word of God comes you it is for you first. Don't try to use the sword to cut others, use it to protect and build up.

Opinion only no facts present.

2 Tim 4:1-4

John 6:60-66

1 Cor 1:18-25

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Paul said if any man preach another gospel let him be accursed. Late in Acts Paul said he was preaching or teaching the kingdom of God.

I find no evidence for the rapture occurring pretrib in scripture some pretribbers redefine the apostacy as the rapture. Paul sets the rapture/resurrect event at Christ's coming not seven years before.

Assuming someone accepted the hyperdispensationslist two gospel theory and pretrib there is still no scripture that teaches your theory. You assume the theory based on connecting dots. This takes precedence for you over the direct teaching if scripture, like I Corinthians 12 where scripture teaches certain gifts are given as the Spirit wills.

Yes false gifts like self-edification. . . . make a noise and fall backward.

Scripture calls that a picture of men mocking God making their oral tradition the master and therefore making the word of God (sola scriptura) without effect. . The foundation of the doctrine of tongues (prophecy after all the nations of the world)is found in Isaiah 28, spoken of as law in 1 Corinthians 14 :21 22. A law of comparison, spiritual to spiritual , line upon line, faith to faith must be applied.

Destroy the foundation in the Old testament . Then it can mean anything a person assigns as a oral tradition to it. . even sounds without meaning can cause wonderment.. falling backward. Like children banging on pots and pans and parents clapping like circus seals .LOL .

Once we establish the purpose and kind of sign then the rest of the spiritual unseen gifts fall into the place of. . . .faith prophecy, our new tongue the gospel .

Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Corinthians 14: 20-22

We walk by the unseen eternal (Faith) .And not after what they eyes see the temporal

Here's an example of a charismatic person's speaking in tongues.

Notice that she believes God gives parking places closer to the storefront as signs of divine favor.

No, I think I park closer to the storefront because I have a handicap permit following a severe auto accident..and I'm really not sure it's a sign of divine favor because I might lose weight if I'd park much further from the front of the store.

Notice also that she doesn't hardly pause to catch her breath. Is this how I would speak in another language? I doubt it...I take time to pause and think when I speak English. Why does a tongues speaker go into a frenzy?

Maybe their response would be that the Holy Spirit is formulating the thoughts...I doubt there are any thoughts behind the words, though. It sounds to me like she's repeating the same syllables over and over and over again.

Additionally, I have been criticized for blending different groups together..well, if you listen to the woman's remarks, you will find that she does, indeed, hold Word of Faith teachings along with charismatic and Pentecostal tendencies.

And, I think that's common.

I'll stick with my Reformed-leaning church.

This thread is about real spiritual gifts, not your made-up strawman misinterpretations.

You are the one doing the mocking.

Peter preached the gospel, and Cornelius spoke in tongues. The gospel is not the "new tongue".

Straw man. I did not say salvation happened apart. from preaching. Yet Jesus did miracles, too, and preached, and so did the apostles, and so do other saints as the Spirit gifts them to. I know of no one who ever got saved from seeing a miracle, a healing, or an answered prayer who had never heard or read the Gospel. Biblical teaching on spirtual gifts is part of sound doctrine.

This is one example. If I show a video of an able-bodied person misusing a "Handicap" permit and stall, does that make all users of such permits suspect? You're drawing conclusions, or looking to justify your preconceived ideas, based on one example.

Her belief regarding parking spots has nothing to do with her speaking in tongues, whether it is misguided or not. Is praying or praising God for a good parking spot somehow wrong?

If the speech is truly empowered by the Holy Spirit (this example is beside the point), then there is no need for such pauses, because the thought behind the speech is not the slow human variety.

Have you ever listened to someone pray in another language, particularly a non-European language? The entire structure is probably very different. If you were praying passionately in English, someone not familiar with English might call your prayer a breathless frenzy.

Which is what a lot of people do when they pray in their own language as well. I get tired of people using "Lord" as punctuation when they pray in English; does that mean their prayer is not genuine? Who am I to criticize someone else's servant?

Nothing like a little guilt by association to round out your criticism.

Your critique can be summed up in seven words: "I've never done it that way before."

If you pray for a parking spot close by and you get one, thank God for answering your prayer. If you get one far away, thank God for the exercise.

The Good News is the Good News of God not of man (Ro 1:1), whether preached by Paul (1Co 15:1), Kefa (1Co 15:5), Jacob (1Co 15:7) or others (1Co 15:11) it the same message and has not changed. God announced it beforehand through His prophets in the Scripture (Ro 1:2-4; 1Pe 1:10-12). Whether you are a Jew or Gentile, either Abraham or Billy Graham, salvation is by grace through faith (Gal 3:8-14; Ro 4:16, 23-25; Eph 2:8-10).

As I have said, I have stated my argument why signs and wonders are not for today. You don't want to accept that, that is understandable since people rarely change their doctrine after online discussions with strangers.

You are free to hold that view, but what are your view about signs and wonders, do they still hold today? That is the objective of the current discussion.

Your teaching is not biblical when it denies 1 Cor 13:8. Three gifts ended.

Salvation only comes by the word of God not through miracles and wonders.

For the cause of Christ
Roger