Are Women Not Allowed to Preach in Every Case?

This is an age-old principle. God gave man authority over all things that breathe. Adam’s leadership role (headship and covering) over Eve was God’s design for the family dynamic, because it’s a reflection of the Trinity.

Subordinate does not mean lesser than.

God gave Eve to Adam to help him fulfill his role,

not to usurp his role.

Women was made to compliment man, not replace him.

I provided the simple answer and a 289 pg document responding to all known objections/questions about this subject near the beginning of this thread in comment #13.

Preaching isn't the issue, Its "teaching and exercising authority over men". Women can preach to anyone they want. They can also teach children and other women. They just can't teach men. It's not complicated.

On the subject of Eldership....Since 1 Timothy 5:17 states that elders lead and teach the church and since women are not to teach or lead men, it follows, therefore, that women cannot be elders in the church

Subordinate does not mean lesser than.

Are you thinking a woman should not exercise authority over a man in all situations, or just in church settings?


Can a woman exercise authority over a male child? I'm asking because I'm wondering what age you're considering a male to become a man? And is there also an age factor of when a female becomes a woman?

The church is not the nuclear family... period.


That is exactly what it means, within a hierarchical structure. It's simply the wrong word for the relationship between males and females in the church.


Which does not automatically place her in a subordinate role. Further, "help" is a poor choice because in English it carries the implication of "inferior assistant" which ezer kenegdo definitely does not carry.


Double fallacy: false dichotomy and circular reasoning. You're drawing "usurp" from a bad translation, and implying that any time a woman is in a leadership role, It's because she has "usurped" it from a man. That's c**p.


Fallacy: false dichotomy (again)... and the word is complement. Woman is fully the image of God, just as man is. Neither is independent of the other, as Paul explains in 1 Corinthians 11. Individual human beings have God-given strengths, and God gives to whom He chooses.

Lets's establish some common ground before we proceed further. I would like to know your understanding of the doctrines that lay beneath this topic. If we disagree at a fundamental level, then we cannot continue and expect to find any fruit in it.

What is your understanding of the doctrine of Headship and Covering?

I'm not seeing much Biblical input from you in these long lists of short dismissals. You're simply disagreeing with me and showing that it doesn't make sense to you.

You've said things like:
"I don't accept your interpretation"
"I don't agree with your chain of reasoning"
"I think you're using circular reasoning"

Lets's establish some common ground before we proceed further. I would like to know your understanding of the doctrines that are rooted beneath this topic. If we disagree at the fundamental level, then we cannot continue and expect to find any fruit in it.

What is your understanding of the doctrine of Headship and Covering?

I'll answer your question exactly as written...

I understand that it is a complementarian interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11 that focuses on the (alleged) hierarchical relationship between all men and all women and generally ignores Paul's key statement, "However, in the Lord...."

I'll answer your question exactly as written...

I understand that it is a complementarian interpretation of 1 Corinthians 11 that focuses on the (alleged) hierarchical relationship between all men and all women and generally ignores Paul's key statement, "However, in the Lord...."

13 "For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

.....Why did Paul give this as the reason he doesn't allow women to teach/exercise authority?

Somehow only part of my comment posted. Here is the full comment:

I'm not seeing much Biblical input from you in these long lists of short dismissals. You're simply disagreeing with me and showing that it doesn't make sense to you.

You've said things like:
"I don't accept your interpretation"
"I don't agree with your chain of reasoning"
"I think you're using circular reasoning"

Women. γυνήa: "an adult female person of marriageable age".
Men: ἀνήρa: "an adult male person of marriageable age."

The Bible speaks in general terms of marriage being for those who are “grown up” (Ruth 1:12–13). Both the language and culture of the Bible strongly support the idea that puberty at bare minimum, is a condition that must be met before becoming someone’s spouse. This fits with the historical purpose of marriage, which has always been about conceiving and rearing children. Scriptural evidence indicates that those too young for childbearing are not candidates for marriage, though there is no explicit age given in the Bible.
But for the purposes of this discussion I don't think the exact age is important because a women that is continually teaching and excising authority over men is usually never near the age that a girl becomes a women. Its usually when that women has has known the Lord for years and know the Word well enough to teach it.

Teach or exercise authority (in the present tense=ongoing........it should be translated "continually teach nor exercise authority"). There is a reason Paul couples these two together. Teaching (gr=didasko) is where we get the English word "didactic". "for He was teaching them as one having authority, and not as their scribes" Matthew 7:29. There is a connection between teaching the Word and authority....because the Word HAS authority. Therefore, teaching the Bible is an exercise of authority.

That being said, to answer the rest of your question my answer is "in church affairs"...meaning in marriage and especially in the teaching ministry and oversight of the Church. Men (Shepherds/Elders) are called to be the leaders of their families and congregations by Godly living and Godly teaching, which Paul covers in the next few verses. He first addresses women not teaching men, then goes on to say that Elders (men) are to be "skilled in teaching" (didasko). Wow, there's that word again!
"(but if a man does not know how to manage his own household, how will he take care of the church of God?)"
There's a rhyme and reason to the flow of the apostle's words. He is telling us what the proper structure of church government ought to be. "For God is a God of order and not of confusion"

I don't believe he did.

"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

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My question remains....... "Why did Paul give this as the reason he doesn't allow women to teach/exercise authority?

Do you really think that quoting Scripture at me is going to change anything?

No I don't believe that it will. I am willing to be teachable, but you're not giving me a a Biblical reason to change my mind.

When I say things like: "Why did Paul give this as the reason...?" (1 Tim 2:13-14...which is theological, not cultural)

And you say: "I don't believe he did" (which isn't a refutation).

And then I provided the lexical information to test your belief: (LSJ, Strong's, DBL, BDAG, CDWGTHB....showing your belief to be lacking).

And your response is: "My answer remains as it was. I don't think (your favorite rebuttal) you've given it an ounce of consideration".

First of all...Do you only believe lexicons when you agree with them?
Secondly....Really? Not even an ounce? Have you not read any of my posts in this thread? Surely I didn't come up with these on the spot without any consideration.

Quoting Scripture is helpful to the one who is willing to learn from them (Proverbs 15:31; 17:10; 19:25; 25:12; 27:5–6). By being teachable (10:8; 12:15; 14:6; 15:32; 21:11) one becomes wiser (1:5). As elsewhere in Proverbs a wise person is a righteous person. Godly character should underlie one’s mental sagacity.

@Dino246 You have shown yourself to be one who is set in your ways....unwilling to change your mind. By definition, you are unwilling to repent.

Rightly did the Apostle Peter speak of you: "in all Paul's letters, he speaks of things, which some are hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. -2 Peter 3:16


This will probably be my last post here, not because the battle is lost, but because the pearls I cast might be better invested elsewhere.

To the rest of you, It was been a wonderful time teaching and learning from one another through God's Word. Be blessed my Brothers and Sisters.

In Yeshua
-Diakonos

I suppose the women Prophets, judge, or the fact that the very first people Jesus appeared to was women. Mary running and sharing the good news. Isnt that all we are called to do is share the good news?

13 "For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.
14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

.....Why did Paul give this as the reason he doesn't allow women to teach/exercise authority?

"For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve and it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression"

I kind of agree on that one.
I don't see it anywhere where Jesus said "Make a Mega Church and have a Dude stand on stage and give a message."
He said to those who believed him to go make disciples... And that isn't restricted to girls or boys.
And also the format of "church" was for people to use their gifts during worship and gatherings. "To prophecy, to sing spiritual songs as they were led and to speak in tongues and to interpret." They even regulated the minimum and maximum of those occurrences in each meeting.

The way I look at that is: Go live your life for Christ, make disciples and learn about God, share his goodness and serve your community. Then out of the joy and overflow of your heart come back to celebrate all that the Lord has done.
Teach each other of his goodness, tell everyone how he has healed and saved people. NOT: Lets sit around and listen to a sermon... grumbling if the pastor goes over a few minutes with our thoughts on the lunch reservations that have been made.