Interesting insight (John 3v36) OSAS take note

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life...

Two different words are used for believe in John 3v36. Using the KJV and Strongs concordance below:

John 3v36 KJV 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Strongs: 3:36 He that believeth 4100 5723 on 1519 the Son 5207 hath 2192 5719 everlasting 166 life 2222: and 1161 he that believeth not 544 5723 the Son 5207 shall 3700 0 not 3756 see 3700 5695 life 2222; but 235 the wrath 3709 of God 2316 abideth 3306 5719 on 1909 him 846.

- The first believeth is
Word: pisteuw
Pronounce: pist-yoo'-o
Strongs Number: G4100
Orig: from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. G4102
Use: TDNT-6:174,849 Verb
Heb Strong: H6004 H8085
1) to have faith in, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
2) by implication, to commit or entrust, i.e. to entrust your spiritual well-being to Christ
2a) to make a commitment (to trust)
2b) to put in trust with or place confidence in

- The second believeth is
Word: apeiqew
Pronounce: ap-i-theh'-o
Strongs Number: G544
Orig: from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. G545
Use: TDNT-6:10,818 Verb
Heb Strong: H2308 H3808 H3808 H3985 H3988 H4603 H4775 H4784 H4843 H5637 H8280
1) not to allow one's self to be persuaded
1a) to refuse or withhold belief
1b) to refuse belief and obedience
2) not to comply with


There is a glaringly obvious reason why a different word is used. The first one is to put your faith in. The second one is to heed and obey what He says.

Two different words are used for believe in John 3v36. Using the KJV and Strongs concordance below:

John 3v36 KJV 36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Strongs: 3:36 He that believeth 4100 5723 on 1519 the Son 5207 hath 2192 5719 everlasting 166 life 2222: and 1161 he that believeth not 544 5723 the Son 5207 shall 3700 0 not 3756 see 3700 5695 life 2222; but 235 the wrath 3709 of God 2316 abideth 3306 5719 on 1909 him 846.

- The first believeth is
Word: pisteuw
Pronounce: pist-yoo'-o
Strongs Number: G4100
Orig: from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one's spiritual well-being to Christ):--believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. G4102
Use: TDNT-6:174,849 Verb
Heb Strong: H6004 H8085
1) to have faith in, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
1a) of the thing believed
1a1) to credit, have confidence
1b) in a moral or religious reference
2) by implication, to commit or entrust, i.e. to entrust your spiritual well-being to Christ
2a) to make a commitment (to trust)
2b) to put in trust with or place confidence in

- The second believeth is
Word: apeiqew
Pronounce: ap-i-theh'-o
Strongs Number: G544
Orig: from 545; to disbelieve (wilfully and perversely):--not believe, disobedient, obey not, unbelieving. G545
Use: TDNT-6:10,818 Verb
Heb Strong: H2308 H3808 H3808 H3985 H3988 H4603 H4775 H4784 H4843 H5637 H8280
1) not to allow one's self to be persuaded
1a) to refuse or withhold belief
1b) to refuse belief and obedience
2) not to comply with


There is a glaringly obvious reason why a different word is used. The first one is to put your faith in. The second one is to heed and obey what He says.

You still have to complete your argument - if it pertains to the title of the thread.

Consider this. Romans 1:20 says that nature (or the creature) shows the things of God. A boy is born to his mother. They are a well-to-do family and know for their intelligence, resourcefulness, diligence and morals. The boy grows. He is a rebel. He refuses to subordinate himself, he steals, kills the pets, destroys the servants goods and insults his tutors. He finally lands in jail for 20 years. At what point is he UNBORN from his parents? At what point does he stop being a man and starts being a chimpanzee? WHAT!!!, you might say. Who said anything about being unborn and taking another nature?

The answer is; Half the Christian community!

1. A man's sins are put away by a work of Christ - God has accepted this and put away sins. Can some puny sinner undo that work, or even worse, can a puny sinner cause God to lessen His opinion about what His Son Jesus did???
2. A man is born to God by FAITH in Jesus. God accepts this faith and the man is born to God (Jn.1:12-13). When do his WORKS undo this birth by the ALL-mighty?
3. A man receives eternal life by FAITH (Jn.3:14-16). At what point can eternal life END?
4. A man is made "partaker of the divine nature" by FAITH (2nd Pet.1:4). At what point does this nature cease?
5. A man is justified by the works of Christ while he is a sinner. At what stage does the man decide that the works of Christ are undone?
6. A man is declared righteous with the righteousness of Christ BY GOD. At what stage does the man's works UNDO the righteousness of Christ?
7. A man is sanctified by the works of Christ, not his own. At what point are his works the undoing of Christ's works
8. A Christian is slothful in building the Church. His work is burned when tested. Yet he is saved but by fire (1st Cor.3:14-15)
9. A Christian commits incest - a heinous sin. He must die . But his death is so that his spirit is saved at the judgment (1st Cor.5:5)
10. A Christian is a son, and loved by his Father. The Father will then chastise, but not destroy completely

Every one of the above was wrought BY CHRIST and APPROVED by the Father. Who is the man, Christian or not, who can overturn the councils of God? Do we really think that a mere man, as evil as he might be, can overturn what God has established? What a low opinion some Christians have of God. God can give His eternal life and divine nature by a birth by the Holy Spirit - and yet a mere puny man can kill this life and undo divinity. Who is the man who thinks that he, or other men are more powerful with their evil than the attributes of the ALL-Mighty?

But you might say, God will not tolerate evil for ever. You are correct, but to combat it do you think that He will UNDO what His beloved Son did as so high a price? No! He will chastise and chastise. He will bring painful circumstances on the wayward Christian. He will cast him into a prison for 1,000 years. But He, being the ALL-Mighty, will achieve His goals. Who is the man who thinks he can be more stubborn than God Who needs no sleep. Nebuchadnezzar, the greatest and most fearsome king who ever lived and a Type of the coming Beast, and who is designated a head of GOLD by God, is putty in the hands of God. Seven years long must the greatest and most fearsome king live among the beasts of the field and eat grass. And what does he say when its over. He decrees the following:

34 "And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

I propose that Romans 8:31-39 is correct to the uttermost. It is not a matter of what man can do. It is what God can do that is decisive. I do not down play God's hand of chastisement. It is GRIEVOUS (Heb.12:11). The wayward Christian will be broken and even crushed to powder (Matt.21:24), but God has not predestined a man to partake of all the heavenly things and then cast him aside. No. God is greater than that by far. The Chritsian who thinks that he/she can do what they like is in for a rude and painful shock. But God will not undo what His Son paid so dearly for. God is true to Himself. His life is ETERNAL. Who can end it? His nature is DIVINE. Can somebody - creature, undo it?

After all is said and done, and all your arguments are given, the text - John 3:36 - still says exactly what it says:

- the one who is believing in Christ has everlasting life - Wonderful! PTL! What blessings and promises from our Saviour!

- but the one who is not believing, heeding, obeying will not see life, and the wrath of God abides on him.

This text does not say that one person cannot go from believing to not believing -- nor does it say it is impossible for a person to go from not believing to believing.

So if someone is not believing, heeding, obeying they are not saved no matter what doctrine a person may use to try to say they are saved.

After all is said and done, and all your arguments are given, the text - John 3:36 - still says exactly what it says:

- the one who is believing in Christ has everlasting life - Wonderful! PTL! What blessings and promises from our Saviour!

- but the one who is not believing, heeding, obeying will not see life, and the wrath of God abides on him.

This text does not say that one person cannot go from believing to not believing -- nor does it say it is impossible for a person to go from not believing to believing.

So if someone is not believing, heeding, obeying they are not saved no matter what doctrine a person may use to try to say they are saved.

Ok, so how does this relate to OSAS?

Why do some people strive to get other people to accept their Salvation is not eternal after all?

You still have to complete your argument - if it pertains to the title of the thread.

Consider this. Romans 1:20 says that nature (or the creature) shows the things of God. A boy is born to his mother. They are a well-to-do family and know for their intelligence, resourcefulness, diligence and morals. The boy grows. He is a rebel. He refuses to subordinate himself, he steals, kills the pets, destroys the servants goods and insults his tutors. He finally lands in jail for 20 years. At what point is he UNBORN from his parents? At what point does he stop being a man and starts being a chimpanzee? WHAT!!!, you might say. Who said anything about being unborn and taking another nature?

You have misunderstood who are the sons of God and who aren't. Once the scriptures are shown to you, the whole argument above falls apart, as well as most of what is written below: Let's explore together:

John 8v31-36
31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
33 They answered Him, “We are Abraham’s descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, ‘You will be made free’?”
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

What can we learn from the above? We have the same people today as we see Jesus addressing in his day. People claiming to be sons of God (sons of Abraham infers sons of God and of God's promises). We have this today too. Ask anyone on this site if they are a son of God and they will reply in the affirmative. Yet Jesus makes a DISTINCTION. Only those who actually obey Him ARE Sons of God. If you do not obey Him, you are not considered a SON but rather a SLAVE. Jesus goes one step further in verse 36, implying that HE has the power to set you free from both the PENALTY as well as the POWER of sin. You no longer have to continu in these sins. If this is confusing, read verse 34 and 35 again.

When we come to Christ, he gives us the gift of the Holy Spirit. Look what it says here:
Romans 8v12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

The Christian is to put to death the misdeeds of the body, by the power of the Holy Spirit (Spirit of Grace) dwelling in them. Those who are LED by the Spirit are the SONS of God. See how this marries perfectly with John 8 above?
You cannot claim to be a SON of God yet continue in willful disobedienec and rebellion to God. A true son will always come to repentance (REQUIREMENT), as we see in the story of the Prodigal son. If someone does not repent, they are not sons.

The prodigal son underwent CHASTISEMENT in the pigsty. And this BROUGHT HIM TO REPENTANCE. However those who are without repentance, those who do not yield to chastisement, are NOT SONS OF GOD, but are illegitimate children. See below:

Hebrews 12v7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no [e]chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

See above? If you think you can confess Christ, that you believe in Him, yet continue unrepentant, resist and reject chastisement to bring you back to Him, then you are NOT sons, despite all claims to being so. God calls you illegitimate.


The answer is; Half the Christian community!

1. A man's sins are put away by a work of Christ - God has accepted this and put away sins. Can some puny sinner undo that work, or even worse, can a puny sinner cause God to lessen His opinion about what His Son Jesus did???
2. A man is born to God by FAITH in Jesus. God accepts this faith and the man is born to God (Jn.1:12-13). When do his WORKS undo this birth by the ALL-mighty?
3. A man receives eternal life by FAITH (Jn.3:14-16). At what point can eternal life END?
4. A man is made "partaker of the divine nature" by FAITH (2nd Pet.1:4). At what point does this nature cease?
5. A man is justified by the works of Christ while he is a sinner. At what stage does the man decide that the works of Christ are undone?
6. A man is declared righteous with the righteousness of Christ BY GOD. At what stage does the man's works UNDO the righteousness of Christ?
7. A man is sanctified by the works of Christ, not his own. At what point are his works the undoing of Christ's works
8. A Christian is slothful in building the Church. His work is burned when tested. Yet he is saved but by fire (1st Cor.3:14-15)
9. A Christian commits incest - a heinous sin. He must die . But his death is so that his spirit is saved at the judgment (1st Cor.5:5)
10. A Christian is a son, and loved by his Father. The Father will then chastise, but not destroy completely

Every one of the above was wrought BY CHRIST and APPROVED by the Father. Who is the man, Christian or not, who can overturn the councils of God? Do we really think that a mere man, as evil as he might be, can overturn what God has established? What a low opinion some Christians have of God. God can give His eternal life and divine nature by a birth by the Holy Spirit - and yet a mere puny man can kill this life and undo divinity. Who is the man who thinks that he, or other men are more powerful with their evil than the attributes of the ALL-Mighty?

But you might say, God will not tolerate evil for ever. You are correct, but to combat it do you think that He will UNDO what His beloved Son did as so high a price? No! He will chastise and chastise. He will bring painful circumstances on the wayward Christian. He will cast him into a prison for 1,000 years. But He, being the ALL-Mighty, will achieve His goals. Who is the man who thinks he can be more stubborn than God Who needs no sleep. Nebuchadnezzar, the greatest and most fearsome king who ever lived and a Type of the coming Beast, and who is designated a head of GOLD by God, is putty in the hands of God. Seven years long must the greatest and most fearsome king live among the beasts of the field and eat grass. And what does he say when its over. He decrees the following:

34 "And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?"

I propose that Romans 8:31-39 is correct to the uttermost. It is not a matter of what man can do. It is what God can do that is decisive. I do not down play God's hand of chastisement. It is GRIEVOUS (Heb.12:11). The wayward Christian will be broken and even crushed to powder (Matt.21:24), but God has not predestined a man to partake of all the heavenly things and then cast him aside. No. God is greater than that by far. The Chritsian who thinks that he/she can do what they like is in for a rude and painful shock. But God will not undo what His Son paid so dearly for. God is true to Himself. His life is ETERNAL. Who can end it? His nature is DIVINE. Can somebody - creature, undo it?

Why do some people strive to get other people to accept their Salvation is not eternal after all?