If a Sabbath is forced, Will you keep Sunday holy?

um yes he’s talking about two laws he’s saying faith is the law

“Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul’s point is , because we’re justified by faith isn’t a breaking of the law , it’s an establishment of the true law of faith . Moses law is. It Christian doctrine let’s settle it clearly right here

“But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

this is thier conclusion

...Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law:

to whom we gave no such commandment:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭15:5-6, 24‬ ‭

it’s about what we do each today we are given on this earth . Keeping the sabbath day , there’s nothing wrong with it bro if your convinced it’s needed you should honor that but also don’t be upset of someone else has faith to say it’s not about the old things anymore , it’s about the gospel

I agree that the laws of Moses that were a shadow of Christ is fulfilled in Christ. The ceremonial laws are not of any value now and the laws that made people a Jew are not needed to be kept today but the Ten Commandments are a law that has been keep from the start and is to be kept today. Hebrews 9 explains why the sanctuary laws are not needed to be followed today Heb 8:5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Most agree that 9 of the 10 are important to keep but the 4th command that God said to remember is the one everyone finds an excuse to ignore.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Jesus is the High Priest in heaven, Is the law that defines sin different today, Does Gods standard change? I know that God is Just and fair, so i believe the law of love has not changed. The laws about ceremonies have changed but Jesus said He will write the laws in our minds and hearts. Why would God not expect us to obey the 4th commandment today?

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Paul did not say don't keep the Sabbath.
There were a lot of traditions and laws added to the way they kept the sabbaths and Jesus or Paul didn't agree with what the Pharisees had done. The ceremonial laws, that were a shadow of Christ, contained many holy days and sabbath days throughout the year.

Who's to say who wrests?

You're right about the Word. When thinking about the OT sometimes I get OT Scripture and OT worship mixed up in my mind. Thinking about one but expressing the other.

everyone has the right to choose.
Keeping the Sabbath for me is for the same reason i choose to not take the Lords name in vain. i fail to obey like Jesus did but praise God i have an advocate that forgives me, praise God Jesus is willing to give me His righteousness.
God made the seventh day Holy, it was sanctified and God has asked us to remember it and keep it Holy. It is your choice if you obey or disobey.

Dispensationalism is a religious interpretive system and metanarrative for the Bible. It considers biblical history as divided by God into dispensations, defined periods or ages to which God has allotted distinctive administrative principles.

If you believe in Dispensationalism you believe that Gods principles for people change as time moves on.

God does not change. God is the same God today as He was when He created Adam. Some of the laws have been fulfilled in Christ, so they no longer need to be practiced. But the principles that define love and the standards that define sin are the same.

i should get some sleep... its getting late here in Australia....

Kept from the start? Deuteronomy 5:2 - The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. 3 The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, those who are here today, all of us who are alive.

Nehemiah 9:13 - “Then You came down on Mount Sinai, And spoke with them from heaven; You gave them just ordinances and true laws, Good statutes and commandments. 14 “So You made known to them Your holy sabbath, And laid down for them commandments, statutes and law, Through Your servant Moses.

The word "sabbath" first appears in Exodus 16:23 - Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a sabbath rest, a holy sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.

*Now if every man from Adam to Moses kept the sabbath, why is the Hebrew word for the weekly sabbath never found in the book of Genesis? Why is no one before Moses ever being told to keep the sabbath? *Why are there no examples of anyone keeping the sabbath before Moses? Why would God leave out the sabbath command in Genesis if it was for everyone to keep before Moses? Nowhere in scripture is there any hint that sabbath keeping was practiced from Adam to Moses.

The moral aspect of 9 out of the 10 are reiterated in the New Testament yet we do not find a command for the Church to keep the sabbath day under the new covenant. It's not about finding an excuse to ignore it. We are not Jews under the law. Sabbath is the shadow and Christ is the substance. (Colossians 2:16-17)

God's Word makes it quite clear that sabbath observance was a sign between God and Israel. (Exodus 31:16-17) God gives the reason why the sabbath was given to the nation of Israel. Deuteronomy 5:15 - Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the Lord your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the Lord your God has commanded you to observe the sabbath day.

Who said that keeping the sabbath day (with all it's rules and regulations and death penalty for profaning the sabbath, along with being cut off from his people for doing any work on it - Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) was part of the law of love? I continuously hear ex-adventists argue it was ceremonial.

Since we do not live under a theocratic state as ancient Israel did under old covenant law, no sabbatarian can live consistently under these Mosaic regulations. How can a person keep a certain law when he only keeps part of it? Our perpetual rest in our fellowship with the Lord is found in Christ in contrast with keeping the weekly sabbath day under the law. (Hebrews 4:3-9)

Paul did not say keep the sabbath. In Colossians 2:16, the words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint. We see Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a, festival - yearly sabbaths, a new moon - monthly sabbaths, or a sabbath day - weekly sabbaths (or sabbath days)" which CHRIST goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 we can see that a connection in Paul's teaching is revealed: But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

In verse 10, we read - "you observe..,"

days (weekly sabbaths, corresponding to "sabbath days in Colossians 2)
months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Colossians 2)
seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Colossians 2)
and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)

Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy days, including the weekly sabbath.

Please explain to me exactly how you "keep the sabbath day." To "keep the sabbath day" under old covenant law involved compliance with specific regulations (Exodus 16:23; 35:3; Leviticus 23:32; Jeremiah 17:21) that were strictly enforced.

If sabbath day observance is still required, then so would the burnt offerings that went along with them. (Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3; Numbers 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13) So no kindling a fire in any of your dwellings on the sabbath. (Exodus 35:3) Every man must remain in his place on the sabbath. (Exodus 16:29) No trading. (Amos 8:5) No marketing. (Nehemiah 10:31; 13:15,19) These were commanded by God to Israel. (Exodus 35:1)

If keeping the weekly sabbath day is still in affect today, then why don't sabbatarians seek to obey ALL that the Lord commanded in regards to it? If keeping the weekly sabbath day is still in effect today, then according to Exodus 31:12-18; 35:1-3; and Numbers 15:32-36, anyone who profaned the Sabbath was put to death and any person who does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from his people. Who is going to enforce that?

GOD WILL, In the Judgement, But it does say that those that do wrests , will be their own destruction.
and to late to say that is what the BIBLE says let us do it, Only the doers

If you want to discuss ideas regarding particular translations, please do so in an appropriate discussion thread rather than interjecting them in this thread.

So you have your own version? huh

I think we can agree that our sins are forgiven and we rest our bodies every night and some people do not have full time jobs. If you want to work 6 days a week I don't see why that would be a problem.

Good that you agree that we rest in Christ. His work accomplished that rest.

Every day is a good day to worship our Lord and Savior. He seems to be often forgotten by Sabbath pushers.

yes Jesus is high priest not of the law however the law had its own priests that’s a good point to discuss

“If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:11-12, 15-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice the law from Sinai had its own mediator , it’s own priests , it’s own sacrifices . Jesus is high priest in the order of melchezidek having nothing to do with the law of Moses or the Ten Commandments those things , those shadows came through the Leviticle priesthood according to this earth.

So if the example I used in my prior post doesn’t involve sabbath days why does it talk about sabbath days specifically ? The whole law and covenant made with Israel is a shadow of the new The priesthood was a shadow of
Melchezidek s , Moses a shadow of Christ the mediator the sacrifices a shadow of Gods lamb

See how the scripture itself includes sabbaths in this I don’t have to tell you it’s there or what it “ really
Means “ or explain it away but if we just accept the scripture it forms better thinking

“Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see your argument is for the importance of the sabbath day yet Paul is of his few examples here specifically talking about sabbaths . Saying “ those things are only a shadow the reality is in Christ “

can you acknowledge that Paul actually is addressing among other things sabbaths there ?

Consider this

“Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the Lord:

whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭35:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died;

as the Lord commanded Moses.”
‭‭Numbers‬ ‭15:32, 35-36‬ ‭

consider this thought brother that teaching from Moses law has nothing to do with the gospel , of one works hard on a sabbath day doing good and not evil they are approved of God

If you decide that when scripture tells us the Law of Moses includes all of what the 119th psalm speaks of, then you say one scripture disagrees with another scripture. That is saying we cannot depend on what the Lord tells us, for it could change any time God wants it to change. Pretty serious accusation against the Lord.

No I’ve made no accusation against the lord , never would just to be clear that’s something you have concluded and I would appreciate you not doing that , but that’s up to you bro .


I think it’s hard for some to accept scriptures they don’t agree with and sometimes we look to argue and accuse and build accusations against others especially if scripture is very clear and abundant

so no I have no accusation against the lord or his word , let’s see if you have an issue with the lord and his word now that we have revelation in the New Testament now that the gospel of the kingdom is the doctrine

the purpose of the law is to shut self righteous mouths and prideful hearts and quiet boastful Men by holding all the world all people guilty it’s purpose isn’t justification but accusation

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The breaking of the covenant became a curse so those who now try to serve God by moses law are partaking of that curse and they cannot ever find justification they seek in that law

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:

for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith:

but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We’ve died to the law through baptism it was necessary because Sin that is in our hearts and minds feeds on rebellion against whatever God says not to do. So the knowledge of sin inside of us produces must for the forbidden things

“Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held;

that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.


But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:4-11‬ ‭

The law doesn’t work for righteousness because we are flawed we’re not holy and the law demanded holiness of sinners it can only condemn and accuse a sinner it cannot remit our sins or cleanse our hearts which was the issue .

son will always use the law against a person to create desire for what is forbidden because of the flesh the law of sin that is within us makes us doomed under the law not because it’s bad but because mankind isn’t what it demands of them we needed new birth , needed a covenant and a law that works for us to cleanse our hearts and minds and change our thinking and desires to God we don’t need any further knowledge of sin and death we need the knowledge now of salvation

The two covenants each have thkernoen mediator We didn’t come to moses and his mediation but we came to Christ and his mediation the difference is life and death

I think even today this holds true for some who are tying both covenants together and pressing the old law on the new covenant it’s hard for them to see like that

“Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same veil untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which veil is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the veil is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There are two covenants they each have a law one is flesh one is spirit Moses spoke one Jesus the other

“Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:27-28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We are to follow the spirit , the flesh will always fail because it’s only a taunt to sinful flesh , the gospel is about solving the issue in us so we can be free

Sound Sort of All right IF you are not talking about GOD Commandment laws, if that so you do era badly.

ECC 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.
12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.

Brother I’m saying Jesus is God manifest fully to the earth , and we need to keep his commandments , Moses commandments aren’t for us

the commandments are fulfilled when we aren’t doing evil against our neighbor no harm , but we are rather living a life that includes helping people who are in greater need than ourselves

Jesus came so we can know who our God is really and truly . What he truly desires of us what he requires of us . Who we are to him , who he is to us , the type of relationship he wills for us to have with him . How we are supposed to treat others , how we are to think about others , how we are to live our lives in this world

those are Gods commandments his law of the spirit , the things our Lord Jesus Christ taught those spiritual understandings that aren’t really “ rules “ so much as understandings and a way to see the world and the kingdom of God

things like his parables it’s not a list of rules it’s more Jesus teaching is how to think about different important things we need to follow the laws that created within our believing hearts and minds sort of believe , grow and follow where his teachings , his commandments lead us

my only Point with this is We the church don’t have a relationship with God based on anything moses said to the children of Israel not his law , nor his intercession when God was going to destroy them , not the book of the law , not the blood of calves and goats he shed and said “ this is the blood of the covenant God has enjoined to you according to all I have commanded you “

It’s about Abraham’s promise when he was told “ in thy seed shall all nations be blessed “ when that promise was made and Abraham’s name was changed and he was made “ the father of many nations “


melchezidek is the priest of God who blesses that covenant promise with bread and wine . Blessing Abraham and blessing God making it the only covenant on the Bible to come about through the intermission of melchezidek

when the children of Israel are delivered from Egypt by God and promised the inheritance of the land of Israel when they receive thier law , it comes through moses , and the priest is made Aaron who becomes the new accepted order of God the Levite’s , when the blood is shed under the law it is of bulls , goats , and calves , their temple in which they serve is Made by mans hands It is all far less than the new things

Jesus the mediator is greater than Moses , Gods deliverance of his people from sin and death is greater than Egypt , our promised land of a new perfect world is greater than theirs of a nation of land on a corrupt earth , the blood that was shed according to the word that was spoken by Jesus is far and away better and greater than anything moses had said before or the blood of animals could offer

Jesus Christ is our lawgiver the old law is like trying to read Gods law while looking through a dark veil with dim candlelight seeing shapes and letters but not seeing it for what it really is , the things Jesus taught is to see Gods law in truth plainly laid out for all to believe

we need to Repent and believe the gospel and that will lead us where we need to be but we’ll never go back to moses at any point but for to learn of the order of things along the way