The MAIN "Divider" Of denominations!

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Does God Require His OT "ritual" of water baptism, for us, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?

  • Total voters
    11
GRACE_ambassador

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
#1
Feb 22, 2021
3,215
1,614
113
Midwest
#1
Precious friend(s), thanks for your participation in This Important Matter!

I believe water baptism is The Main Divider of christian denominations.
I pray that many will be blessed And Encouraged, prayerfully And Carefully
reviewing All Of God's Scriptural Evidence In HIS Important Doctrines! Amen?:

12 baptisms ONE Baptism

All loving help with Any Improvements needed in these "studies" will
Be Greatly Appreciated! See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ :) ↑
 
G

Gideon300

Well-known member
#2
Mar 18, 2021
5,354
3,153
113
#2
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend(s), thanks for your participation in This Important Matter!

I believe water baptism is The Main Divider of christian denominations.
I pray that many will be blessed And Encouraged, prayerfully And Carefully
reviewing All Of God's Scriptural Evidence In HIS Important Doctrines! Amen?:

12 baptisms ONE Baptism

All loving help with Any Improvements needed in these "studies" will
Be Greatly Appreciated! See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ :) ↑
Click to expand...
I don't agree with your premise. The great divider is seeing doctrine as more important than unity and love. The place of baptism is one of many issues that Christians divide over. I believe that believers should be baptised. I do not demand that of anyone that chooses to fellowship with us. I do show them in the word why they should be baptised. No, it is not necessary for salvation.

When Christians go to the next life, God will not be examining the accuracy of their doctrines. There is no separate heaven for Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals or Catholics. God has a stethoscope. He checks to see if the person is alive. If so, he is welcomed. He is then judged on how he has lived life in Christ. It's for rewards, not for eternal destiny. If you are born again, that is settled already, in this life.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

Well-known member
#3
Jun 11, 2018
3,334
3,704
113
68
#3
Hello @GRACE_ambassador, God commanded us to baptize (and to be baptized .. Jesus was .. e.g. Matthew 3:13-17), and it's clear that the Apostles/the early church, and new believers in the early church, did so (and knowing that is plenty for me to believe that water baptism* is something that Christians/the church should continue to practice).

God bless you!

~Deut
p.s. - as the Lord Jesus told us (just before His Ascension):

Matthew 28​
19 “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit"​
​
Mark 16​
15 “Go into all the world and preach the Gospel to all creation.​
16 He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.​


*(for clarity's sake, I do not believe that the waters of baptism are salvific)
.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#4
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#4
I appreciate the choices given in the Poll; but the slanted way the question was framed, was a bit over the top.
The expected answer was embedded in the question...'
"His OT "ritual" ... pleeze
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#5
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#5
GRACE_ambassador said:
I believe water baptism is The Main Divider of christian denominations.
Click to expand...
The very concept of denominations itself is abominable...

1 Corinthians
12:12 For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also [is] Christ.
12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Water baptism is merely a ritual and cannot save. It is testimonial. The Atonement alone is what saves.
 
JohnRH

JohnRH

Junior Member
#6
Mar 5, 2018
676
324
63
#6
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend(s), thanks for your participation in This Important Matter!

I believe water baptism is The Main Divider of christian denominations.
I pray that many will be blessed And Encouraged, prayerfully And Carefully
reviewing All Of God's Scriptural Evidence In HIS Important Doctrines! Amen?:

12 baptisms ONE Baptism

All loving help with Any Improvements needed in these "studies" will
Be Greatly Appreciated! See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ :) ↑
Click to expand...
The numerous requirements in the New Testament and God's pure grace are in perfect harmony with each other. Don't pit one against the other.
Water baptism is one of the requirements. It won't save you, but it won't counter God's grace either. You'll enjoy God's pure grace when you obey His requirements.

If you're saved by grace alone (the only way to be saved), then walk after the indwelt Holy Spirit and not after your unredeemed flesh. Walking after the Spirit will enable you to keep His requirements in your daily walk.

... That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:4 (KJV)
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#7
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
#7
Water baptism is not an OT ritual.

The requirement for everyone to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus began on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38)

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts
2:38). Remission denotes a release, wiping out, cancellation,
or dismissal. At baptism, God releases, wipes out,
cancels, and dismisses our sins.
Some disagree with this understanding, holding that
baptism is performed because one has already obtained
remission of sins. To them the word for in Acts 2:38
means “because of” or “with a view towards.” It seems
clear, however, that for actually means “to receive” or “in
order to obtain.”

(1) This is the literal meaning one gathers from reading
both the Greek and English texts. The NIV translates
Acts 2:38 as, “Peter replied, Repent and be baptized,
every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your
sins may be forgiven. . . .”

(2) The context leads to this interpretation. Guilty
sinners asked, “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Peter
answered them by explaining what they needed to do to
receive remission of sins, not by describing optional conduct.
He did not mean, “Repent and be baptized because
you already have received remission of sins.”

(3) Matthew 26:28 records exactly the same Greek
wording when Jesus said, “For this is my blood of the
new testament, which is shed for many for the remission
of sins.” Christ shed His blood so that we might obtain
remission of sins, not because we already have it. The
phrase can point to future remission of sins (as John and
Jesus used it), but it never points back to remission
already obtained.

(4) Many other verses of Scripture describe the role
of baptism in remitting sins.
Baptismal Regeneration?
At this point, we must emphasize that the Bible does
not teach “baptismal regeneration,” for the water and the
ceremony do not have saving power in themselves. Water
baptism is not a magical act; it is without spiritual value
unless accompanied by conscious faith and repentance.
Baptism is important only because God has ordained it
to be so. God could have chosen to remit sin without baptism,
but in the New Testament church He has chosen to
do so at the moment of baptism. Our actions at baptism
do not provide salvation or earn it from God; God alone
remits sins based on Christ’s atoning death. When we
submit to water baptism according to God’s plan, God
honors our obedient faith and remits our sin.
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#8
Feb 24, 2009
3,236
1,130
113
New Zealand
#8
Wansvic said:
Water baptism is not an OT ritual.

The requirement for everyone to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus began on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38)

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts
2:38). Remission denotes a release, wiping out, cancellation,
or dismissal. At baptism, God releases, wipes out,
cancels, and dismisses our sins.
Some disagree with this understanding, holding that
baptism is performed because one has already obtained
remission of sins. To them the word for in Acts 2:38
means “because of” or “with a view towards.” It seems
clear, however, that for actually means “to receive” or “in
order to obtain.”

(1) This is the literal meaning one gathers from reading
both the Greek and English texts. The NIV translates
Acts 2:38 as, “Peter replied, Repent and be baptized,
every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your
sins may be forgiven. . . .”

(2) The context leads to this interpretation. Guilty
sinners asked, “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Peter
answered them by explaining what they needed to do to
receive remission of sins, not by describing optional conduct.
He did not mean, “Repent and be baptized because
you already have received remission of sins.”

(3) Matthew 26:28 records exactly the same Greek
wording when Jesus said, “For this is my blood of the
new testament, which is shed for many for the remission
of sins.” Christ shed His blood so that we might obtain
remission of sins, not because we already have it. The
phrase can point to future remission of sins (as John and
Jesus used it), but it never points back to remission
already obtained.

(4) Many other verses of Scripture describe the role
of baptism in remitting sins.
Baptismal Regeneration?
At this point, we must emphasize that the Bible does
not teach “baptismal regeneration,” for the water and the
ceremony do not have saving power in themselves. Water
baptism is not a magical act; it is without spiritual value
unless accompanied by conscious faith and repentance.
Baptism is important only because God has ordained it
to be so. God could have chosen to remit sin without baptism,
but in the New Testament church He has chosen to
do so at the moment of baptism. Our actions at baptism
do not provide salvation or earn it from God; God alone
remits sins based on Christ’s atoning death. When we
submit to water baptism according to God’s plan, God
honors our obedient faith and remits our sin.
Click to expand...
Jesus and His disciples.

The first church, wouldn't you say?


They did all the work of a church with Jesus as the Head.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#9
Nov 27, 2018
5,254
1,109
113
#9
wattie said:
Jesus and His disciples.

The first church, wouldn't you say?


They did all the work of a church with Jesus as the Head.
Click to expand...
The NT Church was not birthed until after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Jesus was the first fruit.
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#10
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#10
Wansvic said:
Water baptism is not an OT ritual.

The requirement for everyone to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus began on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38)

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts
2:38). Remission denotes a release, wiping out, cancellation,
or dismissal. At baptism, God releases, wipes out,
cancels, and dismisses our sins.
Some disagree with this understanding, holding that
baptism is performed because one has already obtained
remission of sins. To them the word for in Acts 2:38
means “because of” or “with a view towards.” It seems
clear, however, that for actually means “to receive” or “in
order to obtain.”

(1) This is the literal meaning one gathers from reading
both the Greek and English texts. The NIV translates
Acts 2:38 as, “Peter replied, Repent and be baptized,
every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your
sins may be forgiven. . . .”

(2) The context leads to this interpretation. Guilty
sinners asked, “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Peter
answered them by explaining what they needed to do to
receive remission of sins, not by describing optional conduct.
He did not mean, “Repent and be baptized because
you already have received remission of sins.”

(3) Matthew 26:28 records exactly the same Greek
wording when Jesus said, “For this is my blood of the
new testament, which is shed for many for the remission
of sins.” Christ shed His blood so that we might obtain
remission of sins, not because we already have it. The
phrase can point to future remission of sins (as John and
Jesus used it), but it never points back to remission
already obtained.

(4) Many other verses of Scripture describe the role
of baptism in remitting sins.
Baptismal Regeneration?
At this point, we must emphasize that the Bible does
not teach “baptismal regeneration,” for the water and the
ceremony do not have saving power in themselves. Water
baptism is not a magical act; it is without spiritual value
unless accompanied by conscious faith and repentance.
Baptism is important only because God has ordained it
to be so. God could have chosen to remit sin without baptism,
but in the New Testament church He has chosen to
do so at the moment of baptism. Our actions at baptism
do not provide salvation or earn it from God; God alone
remits sins based on Christ’s atoning death. When we
submit to water baptism according to God’s plan, God
honors our obedient faith and remits our sin.
Click to expand...
Peter told THEM to be baptised in acts 2.38 ( Israel )
 
T

throughfaith

Well-known member
#11
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
#11
The biggest confusion is a misappropriation of Acts 2.38 . So many denominations think this verse is the plan of salvation today .
 
14meatcc

14meatcc

Active member
#12
Feb 17, 2020
154
86
28
San Diego
#12
Gideon300 said:
I don't agree with your premise. The great divider is seeing doctrine as more important than unity and love. The place of baptism is one of many issues that Christians divide over. I believe that believers should be baptised. I do not demand that of anyone that chooses to fellowship with us. I do show them in the word why they should be baptised. No, it is not necessary for salvation.

When Christians go to the next life, God will not be examining the accuracy of their doctrines. There is no separate heaven for Calvinists, Baptists, Pentecostals or Catholics. God has a stethoscope. He checks to see if the person is alive. If so, he is welcomed. He is then judged on how he has lived life in Christ. It's for rewards, not for eternal destiny. If you are born again, that is settled already, in this life.
Click to expand...
You must worship God in Spirit and in truth.
Otherwise you are not worshipping the only true God, but a God of your own understanding, which is a mere idol.
 
14meatcc

14meatcc

Active member
#13
Feb 17, 2020
154
86
28
San Diego
#13
Wansvic said:
Water baptism is not an OT ritual.

The requirement for everyone to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus began on the day the NT church was birthed. (Acts 2:38)

Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins” (Acts
2:38). Remission denotes a release, wiping out, cancellation,
or dismissal. At baptism, God releases, wipes out,
cancels, and dismisses our sins.
Some disagree with this understanding, holding that
baptism is performed because one has already obtained
remission of sins. To them the word for in Acts 2:38
means “because of” or “with a view towards.” It seems
clear, however, that for actually means “to receive” or “in
order to obtain.”

(1) This is the literal meaning one gathers from reading
both the Greek and English texts. The NIV translates
Acts 2:38 as, “Peter replied, Repent and be baptized,
every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ so that your
sins may be forgiven. . . .”

(2) The context leads to this interpretation. Guilty
sinners asked, “What shall we do?” (Acts 2:37). Peter
answered them by explaining what they needed to do to
receive remission of sins, not by describing optional conduct.
He did not mean, “Repent and be baptized because
you already have received remission of sins.”

(3) Matthew 26:28 records exactly the same Greek
wording when Jesus said, “For this is my blood of the
new testament, which is shed for many for the remission
of sins.” Christ shed His blood so that we might obtain
remission of sins, not because we already have it. The
phrase can point to future remission of sins (as John and
Jesus used it), but it never points back to remission
already obtained.

(4) Many other verses of Scripture describe the role
of baptism in remitting sins.
Baptismal Regeneration?
At this point, we must emphasize that the Bible does
not teach “baptismal regeneration,” for the water and the
ceremony do not have saving power in themselves. Water
baptism is not a magical act; it is without spiritual value
unless accompanied by conscious faith and repentance.
Baptism is important only because God has ordained it
to be so. God could have chosen to remit sin without baptism,
but in the New Testament church He has chosen to
do so at the moment of baptism. Our actions at baptism
do not provide salvation or earn it from God; God alone
remits sins based on Christ’s atoning death. When we
submit to water baptism according to God’s plan, God
honors our obedient faith and remits our sin.
Click to expand...
I have been baptized with the holy Spirit.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#14
Jul 2, 2011
21,429
6,707
113
#14
How is it then that John the Baptizer is known as the last of the Old Testament Prophets?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#15
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#15
Does God Require His OT "ritual" of water baptism, for us, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?
Click to expand...
Who says it is an "OT ritual"? Do you have zero understanding of Christian baptism under grace?
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#17
Nov 24, 2012
30,742
3,670
113
#17
Gideon300 said:
The great divider is seeing doctrine as more important than unity and love.
Click to expand...
That statement appears to be a statement of doctrine in and of itself ...and thus self defeating.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#18
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#18
Gideon300 said:
The great divider is seeing doctrine as more important than unity and love.
Click to expand...
How can you have unity without unity of doctrine? Doctrine and love go hand in hand, since grace AND truth came by Jesus Christ. It is Christ who insists that Christians must hold fast to true doctrine. Please see the letters to the seven churches.

Now we have someone here telling us that Christian baptism is an "OT ritual". And that too in the face of Christ's COMMANDMENT not only to preach the Gospel and make disciples, but to baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit. So we have division right here. Then we have the Catholics teaching that the New Birth comes about through water baptism (baptismal regeneration).
 
Dino246

Dino246

Senior Member
#19
Jun 30, 2015
25,472
13,785
113
#19
GRACE_ambassador said:
Precious friend(s), thanks for your participation in This Important Matter!

I believe water baptism is The Main Divider of christian denominations.
I pray that many will be blessed And Encouraged, prayerfully And Carefully
reviewing All Of God's Scriptural Evidence In HIS Important Doctrines! Amen?:

12 baptisms ONE Baptism

All loving help with Any Improvements needed in these "studies" will
Be Greatly Appreciated! See you in God’s Great GloryLand! ♫ :) ↑
Click to expand...
With respect, I find it rather hypocritical that you open a thread with a statement claiming ONE issue is THE MAIN DIVIDER of Christian denominations, yet you have a "signature block" that identifies one SECONDARY issue as "meat" and several other issues as "milk".

I assure you, baptism is not the main divider of denominations.

Sin is.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#20
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
#20
Gideon300 said:
I don't agree with your premise. The great divider is seeing doctrine as more important than unity and love.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more. However, the way I'd say it is putting doctrine above people. Loving people is paramount, but unity not so much. We mustn't compromise doctrine for the sake of inter-denominationalism or ecumenicism.
 
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