Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

Hi Resident Alien,

I'm late to the thread, but in case anyone happens to read it again, I'd like to add some other verses. The other thing to look for are the 'IF' verses. I believe that we are safe and secure in Christ as we remain in Him. If I keep my warm coat, gloves, and hat, and boots on in the winter I am safe from the cold. An anology I heard once of a farmer who on a cold winter day went to his barn, hearing a hen squawking madly--a ways a way from her were three frozen chicks, but under her wing were three live ones. As they remained under the mother hens wing, they were saved. And all they need do is remain.

There is also of course complete rejection of Christ after having once believed. Judas as a primary example--people will say he was never saved, but Christ chose Him--even though Christ knew the outcome. It's a bit complicated to explain this--as he is eternal, but what happened happened in TIME. When he chose Judas in time Judas believed. He was one of the 12 and He then turned away, as the scriptures says,

"While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled."--John 17:12

You cannot be lost if you had not first been found.

People mistakenly think that if you don't believe in OSAS, that you believe that you can lose your salvation by sinning, but that's not the case. It is to turn away and live in DELIBERATE and WILLFUL sin as it says in Hebrews 10:26:

" If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,"

Also Paul said, "But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified."--1st Corinthians 9:27

Christ said in John 15:6, "If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned." ( figurative for judgment and destruction)

So often churches espousing this doctrine have pastors and elders, congregants, who look at pornography--even at church! These pastors commit suicide and I've even heard pastors 'comfort' people in saying a person who commits suicide is still saved--it may comfort the family, but what about a suicidal person who might be listening? There was a well-known apologist who WILLFULLY lived a life of sin--perhaps he confessed when he became ill and eventually died. I don't know. But I find those who espouse to this often live like the world because they feel they have it in the bag. I feel perfectly secure in my salvation, but just as the Lord's prayers says, I ask to be kept from temptation, I confess my sins and pray I will live a life of obedience to Him. PS All churches I have attended believed in OSAS--I came to my belief by my own study of the word--and I did't feel I was having to dig--it was right there in black and white.

( look online at how many pastors commit sexual sins or commit suicide--I'd venture to guess most are in OSAS churches)

excuse not editing

Gods salvation is a free gift(Jesus himself), it is not a reward. God is not taking back his gift from us. So we can not loss our salvation. That's clear. But we can throw our gift, because God gives us freedom to do that. If we throw away our gift(Jesus), we are not losing it due to God but we are losing it due to ourselves. Its clear as pure water.

, would you mind telling me where it said we never had it and its context. I want to know. I will be grateful. I might have some question later again. + Gods love is unconditional that I agree, It is free. But I think we can reject the unconditional.free gift. or else we have no freedom.

If you look at 1st John 2: 18-22. He speaks of those who are antichrist. He says they were never of us. for if they were of us they would never have departed. But they departed to confirm they were never of us.

And antichrist in context is one who deny's christ. (vs 22)

If you hand Jesus back the gift. you are in effect denying him. And are against him.

If anyone has the fear of the LORD in them, they will not throw away the gift (depart from the Lord)...Jeremiah 32:38-40, Psalms 19:9.

Exactly, Antichrist use Christ name but they do not get salvation because they do not receive Jesus. But those who receive Jesus they can not give back the gift to God, but they can throw it away. Antichrist rebel knowingly, but many people act like antichrist unknowingly, there are a big difference. John does not say for those who do things unknowingly, cause when they know the truth they repent.

no they can not throw it away

They were part of the church. They left after having claimed to believe in Christ, they now claim they do not believe in Christ.

They were of us. Means they were active with us. They were not antichrist at that time. They in effect as you claim threw away their belief

They did not have true saving faith. And were not saved, that’s WHY they walked away.

No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation.

I agree with you that they can not throw it away. they can not throw it away cause they didn't have it. But those people can throw it who have it. many people don't recognize salvation even though they have it. If you have salvation but you do not want to live with god, God will not put pressure on you to live with him.
+ When you say about true saving faith what do you mean? What is true saving faith? Justification, sanctification or glorification? As long as we are justified in Jesus we are saved. But we are not yet totally sanctified. as long as we are not sanctified totally, we will not fully in fear of God cause until than we are not matured in faith.
** What do you mean by "No one who is truly born again throws away their salvation."? They can not throw away or they will not? Is it biblical or theological comment?
+ Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. It means they are condemnable, But there will be no condemnation from God because of Jesus Christ. But if they throw it away, they will be condemned for later sin(bad thinking is also not godly standard, so they will fall for sure without Jesus).

We are justified by faith. True saving faith
not everyone who claims to have faith is saved. Many walk with the church for years but realize they really do
Not feel God they see no evidence that they were ever saved. While they are blessed by association with Gods people they have not personally experienced Gods love because they were never born again
it is these people who end up walking away as anything Christ’s not because they stop having faith but because they never had saving faith and never experience personally gods love.

Feeling can be false, realization can be false. We can not depend on our emotion or feeling or even in experience if it is not collaborate with the word of God. My real question is what do you mean by true saving faith. Cause even 12 disciples had faith in Jesus but Peter denied him, Thomas wanted proof because of doubt, Jonah had faith in God but did not wanted to obey, Abraham had faith in God but tried with Hagar and many more(like Gideon, Samson ... ) So what is the true saving faith? Is it the faith that transform as gradually(there will be fault in us and it is called justification from which we will sanctified gradually so even we have this kind of faith we might deny God or Jesus) or the faith that make ourselves totally transformed and we do not reject Jesus anymore. What is the saving faith?

those who receive Jesus they can not give back the gift to God, but they can throw it away.

Feeling can be false, realization can be false. We can not depend on our emotion or feeling or even in experience if it is not collaborate with the word of God. My real question is what do you mean by true saving faith. Cause even 12 disciples had faith in Jesus but Peter denied him, Thomas wanted proof because of doubt, Jonah had faith in God but did not wanted to obey, Abraham had faith in God but tried with Hagar and many more(like Gideon, Samson ... ) So what is the true saving faith? Is it the faith that transform as gradually(there will be fault in us and it is called justification from which we will sanctified gradually so even we have this kind of faith we might deny God or Jesus) or the faith that make ourselves totally transformed and we do not reject Jesus anymore. What is the saving faith?

Thanks for posting. What message are you conveying by this scripture? What do you mean?

True saving faith means a faith which saves.

Not a claimed faith which is no faith at all.

100 people can claim they have saving faith

it does not mean that have it

We are saved by grace through faith. Not just mental agreement, but true saving faith.

Precious friend, Totally Unscriptural. Please go by All Scriptures; All those
"Jesus Has NEVER Known, Do NOT belong to Him!!" (Matthew 7:21-23)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

"All those JESUS Has ALWAYS Known, BELONG To Him!" The "SEAL Of The
SURE Foundation!!!" (2 Timothy 2:19 cp 1 Corinthians 6:19; Ephesians 1:4).

That And Another 12 DOZEN "Plain And Clear Scriptures" Are WHY "God
Calls It ETERNAL Life," and NOT man's idea of some TEMPORARY life!
Again: Please ALWAYS go By ALL Of God's Profitable Scriptures!:

God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST!
God's FREE Gift of {temporary?} ETERNAL Life!

(2 Timothy 2:15; Romans 16:25; Ephesians 1:3-9; Ephesians 3:9 =
Grace/Mystery fellowship{Romans – Philemon}, For ALL “to SEE,” today?)

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God’s Simple Will!

Exactly, In in the same way many humble people may say they did not have the saving faith but they are saved by Jesus. So actually I Can not say who gets the saving faith and who don't, Only god knows. + We are claiming that we have saving faith, that might be a problem. What do you think?

we have more of a problem if we claim the eternal life given By God can be lost. For any reason.

Your right. Only God knows who is saved and who is not

Brother, I think there is some misunderstanding between us. I never said eternal life can be lost. I just said that it can be thrown away, that means it can be taken back again(but the problem is repent will be harder). eternal life is never lost just thrown away. cause if we can not choose to stay with God or not to stay with God there is no free will. and if there is no free will, How can we be the image of God? we will be like Robots.

If I can throw eternal life away it can be lost.

It becomes conditional life. Because it is based on the fact of me wanting to keep it and not give it back.

See I disagree with you. There is free will

Anyone who ever has truly experienced Gods love will never freely give it back. We lose faith in people who fail us. God never fails us. We may think an this area or that area God failed us, But this is not true. and he has proven trustworthy in so many areas that we would never lose complete faith in him.

people go back to what they really have faith in.

A person who really trusted the law may try christianity for a while, But their faith is in the law. And they will go back.

People who truly has faith in the world may try christianity for a while. But like a dog returns to his vomit, so will they return to what they truly believe.

That is why John said if they were truly of us they never would have left. they left to expose the fact they were never truly of us.