The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4

Rebellion and a man of sin reveal than rapture
So post trib

HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DOES ANYONE NEED ON WHERE CHRIST STANDS ON THE SUBJECT OF GATHERING ANYONE OUT OF THE WORLD?

John 17:15 Not I do ask that You should take them out of the world but that you should keep them from evil.


HOW MUCH MORE PROOF DOES ANYONE NEED THAT GOD KEEPS US FROM EVIL WHILE WE REMAIN RIGHT HERE ON EARTH.


5083. téreó ►
Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

John 18:20 Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing.

We minus me buddy. I am 100% all in with "the departure" meaning in context the rapture. No problemo.

Your mistake is in thinking that the false claim (by false conveyors) IN VERSE 2 is identical to [i.e the SAME Subject as] what PAUL was referring to IN VERSE 1.



They are not the SAME THING.

Of course not. Because the Church has already been raptured before this person doing the deceiving is revealed.

Try to keep up. In context "the departure" has nothing whatsoever to do with the rebellion. In fact the notion and concept of apostasy or rebellion doesn't belong anywhere in Thessalonians. It's completely out of place because of the very spirit and nature of these two books.

In both of these books it is consistently clear that we are to be taken out of and away from God's wrath, which happens before the DOTL ever begins.

There is no passage all of Scripture that indicates that the Church goes through Daniels 70th week wrath/the DOTL seven year judgment.

We have already been raptured and are no longer earth dwellers by Revelation 4. The 1Thes 5 birth pangs and darkness befall...."they" and "them". They do NOT befall "ye" and "we".

Which makes the departing ones Apostates. So far deceived that they want to be that. That alone should make people run away from pretrib.

Better yet, let's show the readers the part that TDW doesn't want you to know:




Liddell and Scott:

A defection, revolt, v.l. in D.H.7.1, J.Vit.10, Plu.Galb.1; esp. in religious sense, rebellion against God, apostasy, LXX Jo.22.22, 2 Ep.Th.2.3 .


Liddell, Scott, Jones Ancient Greek Lexicon (LSJ):


apostasia
I a departure from one's religion, apostasy , Salv. Gub. Dei, 6, p. 128; Aug. c. Jul. 56.

apostasia apostasiae N F :: apostasy, departure from one's religion, repudiation of one's faith

Don't fall for this switchoroo tactic. TDW wants to replace apostasia with a different word to avoid what apostasia actually means. This is dishonest tactics.

Here is a picture from that link:

Paul wrote apostasia not apostasis. It is YOU that ignores what was actually written. You deliberately remove and replace words in holy scripture and you should know the punishment for that.

Which is why Paul did not use that word. You are wrong to cite the wrong word over and over and misrepresent what these sources actually say. This is what you don't want people to know about Winers grammar:

Winer's Grammar:

Apostasia, a falling away, defection, apostasy; in the Bible namely, from the true religion: Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3 ; ((Joshua 22:22; 2 Chronicles 29:19; 2 Chronicles 33:19); Jeremiah 2:19; Jeremiah 36 29 ) 32 Complutensian; 1 Macc. 2:15). The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24).

Sorry buddy but you are dead wrong. The Departure means exactly what it says. Nothing more nothing less. And don't forget it's a noun not a verb....

@ewq1938 , according to your way of reasoning, consider that your "signature" says:

[re: this word] "[...] Ac21:21, II Th 2:3"...


...but (if we're to follow *your* rules), we have to TOSS OUT "Acts 21:21" because the writer there penned the word "ἀποστασίαν / apostasian ." (not "apostasia"--the word you insist it ONLY must be spelled as!)



And this also means that "apostasia" [this spelling] is only used ONE TIME in the NT (in 2Th2:3)... which NIXES your "quotes by scholars" saying "ALWAYS... in the NT [in such a way]" (unless you decide you wanna MODIFY your "rule"... for yourself... but no one else [no other GREEK SCHOLARS] of course)

[quoting Greek Scholar... from ewq's quotings]

"The earlier Greeks say Apostasis; see Lob. ad Phryn., p. 528; (Winer's Grammar, 24)."


Why would they SAY such a word...;

FOR WHAT?!?









["apostasian" (Acts 21:21, written after 2Th2:3, I believe)... "apostasia" (2Th2:3)... "apostasis" (older Greeks' spelling of this word)... ALL THE SAME WORD (differing SPELLINGS, same MEANING)]

^ IOW, why is that word (in blue ^ ) even LISTED under "G646" ??

What do you mean "as in resurrected". show the verse where that is clear.

No, no. Let's not go for excuses.

Huh? This is about dead people in graves who come out of their graves. Seen in Jerusalem.

Nothing about being given glorified bodies, nothing about THEM being resurrected. They came back to physical life.

He died again. Nothing about his going to heaven, receiving a glorified body. Zip.

Only Jesus' resurrection is called "firstfruits", because He was the FIRST to get a glorified body. Acts 26:23

ag
Once again you screw up your post. All the above is from me, but it appears to have come from you. Formatting posts isn't that difficult.

You have no idea what I do. But you are an expert at presumption, assumptions and guessing.

Look in mirror and repeat this.

[QUTOE]You don't know any of the pretrib verses or care to look at them.[/QUOTE]
If I don't, it's only because you keep refusing to share them. Even though I've been begging for them.

You just told me what I do: "you skip them and nevef look at them". You do what you claim others do.

cv5 said:
It definitely does. It always has. It certainly was the original intent.
Great example of denial here.

Right.

And Paul, in these two epistles, refers to the event / circumstances describing [what we call] "our Rapture," something like EIGHT TIMES... not merely in 1Th4:17 ALONE (the commonly-known ONE verse ppl usually refer to / acknowledge)