Doctrine of Unconditional Election

justpassingthrough

Yes if we are speaking of the eternal realm and or the legal relm, but no if speaking of the spiritual relm. Unconditional election takes place in the eternal relm.

Sorry, but I must have missed it. Would you refer me to the post number(s)?

Thus you are promoting a “Christ-less” salvation, in which we are saved apart from hearing and believing Jesus Christ.



JLB

After thinking about your question further I became dissatisfied with my reply to you. I had overlooked that you included the word
"ever" in it. So, if you were asking if they would never, ever hear the word after becoming saved, no, I don't think that to be correct.
I believe that at some point, in some way, during or after their salvation, those who become saved are exposed to the word and can hear it with spiritual ears, but that hearing is not what saved them. They are saved because, and only because, God had chosen them for such. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Here is what Christ said —


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16



And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned. Mark 16:15-16



Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


The condition for salvation is to believe.





Your theory is not from God.





JPT

Yeah, you've said that to me several times before and it makes no sense. I am the one who says that Christ is the Savior and that He alone must do the saving. How is that "Christ-less"? Everything I say is based upon Christ.

How can someone be saved who has never heard of Christ and the Gospel of His salvation?



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher?

JPT

The problem you have with the way you've interpreted the above verses is in the word "believe". Belief is given to those saved as a
fruit of the Spirit upon becoming born-again. No one can become born-again unless and until they have become saved. Please observe

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Please answer the question from the scripture.



How can someone be saved who has never heard of Christ and the Gospel of His salvation?



How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher? Romans 10:14

• How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
• And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
• And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Because it is not of the work or action of the person being saved. It is through Christ and not of themselves. Christ is the Saviour.

Sure. Their belief is not what has saved them. Their belief comes AFTER, FROM, and BY salvation and becoming born again.
No one can truly believe UNTIL that happens.

I'm going to grab a quick cup of coffee (or two - it's early in Cali) but I'd like to come back to finish my reply to you if that's ok

And yet, there are NO verses that teach such a silly thing. The very idea would deny the role of faith in salvation. And the Bible DOES say that we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH.

It does NOT say "saved by grace through election", which is what your view really is.

Another non-fact. Just another opinion by calvinists. And they have NO verses that support their notions.

Easy. Jesus was referring to those who were refusing to believe. Because God already knows who will refuse to believe, it is those people that God gives them faulty ears and eyes.

If you don't believe that people actually REFUSE to believe, here are 2 verses that show that refusing is a free choice.

Acts 14:2 and 19:9.

To continue a bit further - the belief/faith of those saved begins after salvation and continues and increases within them throughout their lifetime by the Holy Spirit. Take Saul/Paul as an example. Saul did not first bring himself to faith in Christ and from that was then saved. He was saved and then came to faith. Saul was on his way to kill and imprison Christians when, though unsolicited, salvation through Christ happened to him - he had not the slightest thought or idea of becoming saved nor of wanting it to happen. He received faith and wisdom later on when given the Holy Spirit, by which, the scales fell from his eyes, but AFTER being saved, not before. He and those saved are given the spirit of wisdom from God as a result of salvation.

[Eph 1:17 KJV] 17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

[Act 9:17-18, 20 KJV]
17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, [even] Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. ...
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

I know that after I post this, I'll think of a bunch more that I should have said and verses I should have posted, but I guess
this will do for now. If I do think of more, I'll reply again. Happy to discuss with you what I've posted so far.

Not to be a pain in the you know what, but I should have included that we are saved by Christ's faith(fulness) to God the Father - that Christ was faithful to Him and not by our faith.

If you are correct, then please explain why Jesus said this:

Matt 9:22 - Jesus turned and saw her. “Take heart, daughter,” he said, “your faith has healed you.” And the woman was healed at that moment.
Matt 9:29 - Then he touched their eyes and said, “According to your faith let it be done to you”;
Matt 15:28 - Then Jesus said to her, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed at that moment.
Mark 5:34 - He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”
Mark 10:52 - “Go,” said Jesus, “your faith has healed you.” Immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

In EVERY case, Jesus noted THEIR faith. iow, personal faith from THEM.

And this is why: Rom 10:10 - For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Faith is personal. It comes from the heart.

I'm only going to reply to the last point of your post. The natural heart of man is evil until it is converted. Until that happens, it is impossible for them to believe. Read the below carefully.

[1Co 2:14 KJV]
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

[Jer 17:9 KJV]
9 The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?

[Eph 4:17-21 KJV]
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

Absolutely correct, for it takes spiritual life to be able to hear spiritually, hence Jesus said to spiritually dead jews on this occasion this Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He that is of God means He that is Born of God see Jn 1:13

Romans 8 and Ephesians 2.

Overwhelming scriptural evidence that election is to salvation, which has service rolled in. Just like Justification and Righteousness.



You CAN'T be elected to service unless you are SAVED. EVERYONE who is SAVED has been elected to SERVICE.

No, you don't come out and actually SAY what you mean.

I have to do that for you.


But you just said it again. OUR faith in Christ saves us. But it is Christ who Saves. From beginning to end. ALL the things that you think are CONDITIONS are actually gifts of God.

That NOT of yourselves, it is the Gift of God.