F I R M A M E N T U M

If you draw a circle and give it height and depth doesn't it turn into a ball shape? Like if you spin a quarter really fast it turns into a ball also.


Have you considered the 'line drawn' in the way of latitude and longitude?

Doesn't GPS paint a fairly accurate picture?

Latin is irrelevant because we have complete Hebrew & Greek manuscripts.

It's not a criticism of the KJV to advise a person to understand it in it's proper context.

If you apply today's definitions and usage to Early Modern English. You will often misunderstand the writer's meaning.
You must understand words & phrases in the same way as English speakers did 400 years ago.

That isn't opinion. It's necessary if you use the KJV. Especially if you want to conduct lectures.

It's a good thing God didn't tell us how everything looks from his perspective.

How long would Genesis 1-2 have to be.... and how weird would would it all sound if he was telling us how things looked from
5 or 6 dimensions?

The Bible should align with reality when literal. When it doesn’t align with reality, such as the earth being a circle, as if often the case, we should look for a figurative meaning. There isn’t a circle drawn upon the face of the deep and if there was all evidence of that is gone now.

This is just talking about what is apparent from the perspective of your eyes when you’re standing in one place. We can confirm this is a sound interpretation because it’s testable and matches reality. My interpretation is accurate, yours is applying assumptions where none should be warranted. You aren’t leaning on the word, you’re leaving on your own understanding.

It would be incomprehensible to us I’m sure, but all I am really trying to say is that the writer couldn’t possibly know the earth is a circle unless he was raptured outer space and shown a view of that. God doesn’t seem to do that often and there’s no written record of that happening. 🤷🏻‍♂️

This is perhaps the most astonishing use of the word of God I have seen in a while, I mean using it to try to prove a conspiracy theory just astonishes me. You don't need the word of God to prove or disprove this theory it's as simple as understanding mass and gravity . Both flat earthers and non flat earthers agreee that the sun revolves around the earth right? well the sun has a gravitational pull due to the amount of mass it has which keeps it in the position it is in, the same goes for earth we also have a gravitational pull equal to the mass of our planet.

Now you see the problem with a flat earth is that if it was flat it would have very little mass to keep it in place in our solar system it would likely be pulled into the sun due to the gravitational pull of the sun assuming that the suns gravitational pull is strong enough otherwise we would be floating around space not held in place

I mean it isn't hard to understand if you understand how mass and gravity work if you don't then you have no place debating this theory as clearly you need to brush up on some stuff before you try to prove a flat earth

Knickers is a funny word. I'm going to include in my repertoire.

You are getting your knickers in a twist over this.

Genesis 1:8 states, "God called the firmament Heaven." Verses 14-17 declare that God made lights and stars in the heaven, and verse 20 adds that fowl fly in the firmament of heaven.

So... the firmament is called Heaven, and that's where the birds fly, and where the sun, moon, and stars are. Are you still prepared to argue that it is "firm"?

Firstly, these verses do not tell us that "the earth does not move". Rather, they tell us that, from the perspective of the Earth's surface, the sun appears to move (or not move, in these cases). You overlooked the narrator's point of view. Secondly, they are anomalous cases (miracles) and cannot be used for describing the normal state of the Earth and sun.

There are several things you are overlooking here. Firstly, though it is a plausible conclusion, the verse does not actually say anything about this "circle" being the Earth. Secondly, it is quite possible that God did inscribe a circle on the face of the deep (water-covered planet Earth) and inside that circle is where He made land appear. The pre-flood Earth shape is not visible to us today, though the artistic renderings I have seen do show Pangaea as roughly circular. Nothing here requires the whole Earth to be flat.

Both of these are silly conclusions made by misunderstanding, misinterpreting, or simply not reading the relevant verses.

Wow... I've seen some silly arguments, but that takes the cake for today. Is your face flat? If so, my condolences. Let the Word speak, and stop filtering it through your own bias and ignorance.

Further, if you want to debate 'flat earth' ideas, this is not the forum for it. There are already several threads in the Conspiracy forum, where they belong.

Yes, the dome firmament is a half sphere on top, and the cave of sheoul the other half sphere, but the earth you live is in the midle, within the circle, not on top of the firmament, neither bellow sheoul.
The Word of God is not "irrelevant" in any language. I don't know why you reject the Word, the Hebrew is the same: the vault of heaven, or 'firmament,' regarded by Hebrews as solid, and supporting 'waters' above it
The Witness of God is greater:
Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
The writer had to know the earth is a circle, because Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, so if there is anyone who knows the earth is a circle, is the writter, because of the Holy Spirit. All knowledge comes from God.
It isn't hard to understand to those to whom it is given, but to those to whom it is not given, it is impossible to understand. All those physic and matter and gravity you preach, are nothing but the witnesses of men, you have to understand, the witness of God is greater.
The thread is on the firmament, not heaven. Because there are seven heavens, it is better to specify and call it firmament, so you know which heaven I am talking about.
Sure they do. If the sun receives a command to stand still, and the sun stands still, it means the earth wasn't moving to begin with. If the earth were moving, they would have to command the earth to stand still too, in order to have the sun standing still. But because only the sun moves, they only commanded the sun to stand still.
Proverbs 8:27 When He prepared the heavens, I was there, When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,

It is not my face, it was a circle on the "face of the deep". "Circle" is a geometric figure, so in context the face of the deep is a surface of flat waters in terms of geometry:
פָנִים From the sense of surface, Genesis 1:2 - In solid geometry, a face is a flat surface

"God called the firmament Heaven", so it is impossible to have a conversation about the firmament and not have it about heaven.

Not in Scripture there aren't.

Only, that doesn't limit which 'heaven' you are discussing; see my first point above.

No, it doesn't. That's a non sequitur.

Nothing in the text states or implies that only the sun moves. Again, you are ignoring the perspective of the participants and the narrator.

Simply wrong. One can also inscribe a perfect two-dimensional circle on the face of a sphere, a spheroid, an ovoid, a torus, and probably quite a few other shapes, the names of which I don't have handy. I'd suggest you think before you post again, though if you are set on embarrassing yourself, I will happily assist you in doing so.

Typical flat earther. Everything they accuse others of they're guilty of themself.

@DanielLL Can you give me your take on my explanation on how mass and gravity work? I have challeneged many flat earthers with this and not one has been able to meet it and debunk it, assuming of course that they had a basic grasp on how mass and gravity works to begin with but again without such basic knowledge one has no place trying to prove a flat earth in fact without a good understanding of physics and science one should know better than to try to prove a flat earth

All who hate Wisdom, love death. The Word is Truth. Those who reject the Word reject the Truth.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Rejecting the Word in order to keep the traditions of men.

1 John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

Taking the witness of men over the witness of God. That is what I see here. You have attacked the Word, the Latin Vulgate, the KJV, and now you are attacking me:
I forgive you, I understand it is impossible to rebuke the Word of Truth, none can speak against the Word:
1 Samuel 2:25 If one man sin against another, the judge shall judge him: but if a man sin against the LORD, who shall intreat for him? Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto the voice of their father, because the LORD would slay them.

So am I to assume you also cannot explain it away either? You know that God created everything and he created everything to work as it does that includes how physics and science works as well meaning without mass the earth would just drift along in outer space. God in his infinite wisdom knew what he was doing when he created the heavens and the earth and frankly I don't approve how you use his holy word against others the word of God is holy and sacred and is not a toy to use as we please just because you cannot properly respond to or properly debunk another persons post doesn't give you the right to mistreat his word as a childish resort because you have no other response to give.

If you cannot explain away my explanation then so be it but at least be mature about it and I would also appreciate it if you would respond to others in a more mature manner as well and not use scripture as a childish mockery against others

And so you attack others by your implications. Blain is a humble seeker of biblical wisdom, and I will attest to the fact that he has not rejected the Word of God.

You are confused. If I wanted to attack any of those you listed, I would do so, and there would be no confusion about it. I haven't done so. You are a newcomer to this board, yet in your first day you have attacked others. As such, you have earned the words of rebuke you have received.

Take the truckload of logs out of your own eye.

I appreciate you standing up for me my friend, it would seem this is the type of person to be quick to attack and also quick to cry being attacked. He knows the scriptures but knowing them does no good if you don't know how to use them and quite frankly I am not impressed he speaks pleny about wisdom and truth but wisdom requires one to accept truth given when it is presented and not simply reject it because it doesn't fit out narrative, then to so blantently misuse and mistreat the scriptures as he does is appalling to say the least on top of that how he attacks others and then plays the victim when given rebuke and rightly given at that he is simply not mature enough to hold his own in such discussions.

I think at this point we have to assume he is not spiritually mature enough to debate heavy topics and whether he sees it or not it shows profoundly, often times we require an outside view of ourselves to really see ourselves and that is often through the eyes of others. Now if he has wisdom like he seems to think he does he will take what I say here to heart.

Fellow Biblical Cosmologist/Flat Earther? If so, you might get a frosty reception around here. Anyways, here is my take on Biblical Cosmology:

Job_37:18 Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass?

Firmament translates "surface; which root word is 'face'- everything has a surface, but the use of the word firmament is meant to imply a surface that is spread out but not necessarily always flat. Water has a liquid surface, the land a solid surface, the sun a gaseous surface... and so all these have firmaments, or expansive surfaces of, them.