Research: Majority of Americans Believe Works Are the Key to Salvation

Dispensationalism is bulldookey because Psalms 111:7-8 KJV plainly tells the Christian that the commandments God wrote with His own hands "stand fast forever and ever" and is why it will ALWAYS be wrong to worship other Gods before God, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc.

If you disagree, tell me which of the Ten Commandments are we now free to disobey?

FreeGrace2 said:
It isn't even possible for any Christian to NOT be a Christian. Your question is rather bogus.

Once a Christian, always a Christian. Whether one acts like it or not.

The verse shows that believers who don't obey God's commands are out of fellowship and they are not being cleansed of their sins, according to 1 John 1:9.

I see what you mean. Thanks for the opportunity to clarify.

When a person is saved, that is a permanent RELATIONSHIP with God through His Son Jesus. The Bible describes this RELATIONSHIP in 2 ways that humans can easily relate to.

Parent-child. God is our Father, and we are His children. No argument.

The human parent-child relationship is permanent. Cannot be broken. Likewise the spiritual relationship with God.

Or, marriage. That, in God's economy, is a PERMANENT relationship. Or should be. It was from the beginning.

Jesus Christ is the Groom, and we are His Bride.

Now, in both of these, the relationship is permanent. However, "fellowship" refers to the condition or state of that permanent relationship.

so, in the parent-child relationship, is it always butterflies and roses? Or is there conflict, etc at times, or even most of the time?



Kinda long, but I hope I've been more clear.

Now, in both of these, the relationship is permanent.

Glad we agree on this, Inquisitor.



Disagree. Verse 5 shows the Woman is the Mother of Christ, not the Bride of Christ.

"5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne."

This is clearly Christ, and the Woman has given birth to Him. Christ is called her Child, and as in Psa 2:9, rules the nations with an iron sceptre. Did the Church give birth to Jesus? The Church is His Bride, not His Mother.

Rev 12:17 also goes together with Gen 3:15:

"17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. "

Gen 3:15 "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Anyway, back on topic, here is another verse about rewards in Heaven for good works done with faith in Christ.

"Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving." (Col 3:23-24)

God Bless.

Yes, your post was almost a book in itself.

Not according to John.

You seem to have missed what John was declaring in this first letter.
The following verses are conditional declarations.

1 John 1:97
But if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

IF we walk in the light...forgiveness!

1 John 2:5-6
But whoever follows His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says that he remains in Him ought, himself also, walk just as He walked.

Whoever FOLLOWS His word...remains in Him!

1 John 2:24
As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

IF what you heard (gospel) from the beginning remains in you...you also will remain in the Son!

John is not talking about works establishing our salvation. John is declaring what faith in Jesus means. An active faith is the true faith.

One can never fall away from that faith in Jesus, IF one has an active faith in Jesus.

One more time.

1 John 1:97
But if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Why do you think I forgot the warning about false prophets??


Yes, it WAS an occurrence in the first century. Peter wrote about it.


That precisely WHY every believer needs to fully understand God's Word, and therefore be prepared with truth.


Satan has been deceiving the world since Eve. There's nothing new here.


The revealed Christ in the Word of God. The One who is God's very Son, the Messiah. That one.


Those who earnestly seek, will find. The Bible says so.

If you disagree, tell me which of the Ten Commandments are we now free to disobey?

Dispensationalism is bulldookey because Psalms 111:7-8 KJV plainly tells the Christian that the commandments God wrote with His own hands "stand fast forever and ever" and is why it will ALWAYS be wrong to worship other Gods before God, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc.

If you disagree, tell me which of the Ten Commandments are we now free to disobey?

Your proclaiming the law.

Not once in the New Testament is the phrase, 'ten commandments', even mentioned, by the way.

Sin is also transgression of the law according to John.

The law is 613 laws plus the law given within the prophets.

If you are under the law, then you cannot transgress any of the law of Moses.

You can't go through life obeying one law and breaking ten other laws.

You need to decide whether you are under the law or not.

Sorry for the length, but you wanted clarification. I hope it was helpful.

Anything you didn't understand or disagreed with?

I stated in regard to the parent-child and marriage relationship:
"Now, in both of these, the relationship is permanent."


Please prove that a child or parent can remove the DNA proof that makes the relationship permanent.

Or, how about this? Can a person be re-born from other parents?

Regarding marriage, this is what Jesus said about it:
Matt 19:3-6
Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”
“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Then this follows: v.7-9
“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”


Didn't miss this at all. What do you think "remains IN Him" refers to? That is key.

Recall what Jesus told the 11 disciples in John 15-
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.

Bolded words show the RECIPROCAL action between Jesus and disciple. This speaks of fellowship between Jesus and disciple.

Blue words speak of being out of fellowship.

If you think that 'remain in Me' refers to salvation, then Jesus is telling His disciples to save themselves by THEMSELVES remaining in Him. But that is impossible. What a disciple CAN do is restore fellowship through confession of sin.


John was speaking about fellowship, which the believer is responsible for. When a believer sins, it is their responsibility to confess their sins and restore fellowship.


No. Faith in Jesus is saving faith in Jesus. Works are commanded to follow. Works are not automatic or guaranteed.


Right.


This is what I was talking about in my last book, I mean, post. When we sin, we need to be cleansed of what offends God, which is unconfessed sin.

John was speaking about fellowship, which the believer is responsible for. When a believer sins, it is their responsibility to confess their sins and restore fellowship.

Jesus came to fulfill the law instead of abolishing it. He even declared that till heaven and earth have passed away, not a tittle of the law shall pass away - that "tittle" is referring to "yod" that looks like a single quotation mark, the smallest letter in Hebrew alphabet. What He came to debunk was the man made traditions, the "fences" that rabbis built around the Torah laws to prevent accidental violation of the laws. And these "fences" toally bummed out. What was God's approach? A new covenant, with the laws written in the heart of every believer:

"I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (Jer. 31:33-34)

Sabbath is mostly disregarded, compared to the other nine.

Jesus came to fulfill the law instead of abolishing it. He even declared that till heaven and earth have passed away, not a tittle of the law shall pass away - that "tittle" is referring to "yod" that looks like a single quotation mark, the smallest letter in Hebrew alphabet. What He came to debunk was the man made traditions, the "fences" that rabbis built around the Torah laws to prevent accidental violation of the laws. And these "fences" toally bummed out. What was God's approach? A new covenant, with the laws written in the heart of every believer:

"I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” (Jer. 31:33-34)

There has been deception all throughout history, but the specific kind of deception being marketed in the name of Jesus?

That's a modern phenomenon. As a matter of fact, in the early days the church was not even known as Christians, but people of the WAY. Satan changed strategy when he realized he couldn't keep pushing the beach ball under water forever.

You are not accurate in your post.

Here is an example.
I said:
"John was speaking about fellowship, which the believer is responsible for. When a believer sins, it is their responsibility to confess their sins and restore fellowship."

You will need to prove that.

Are you saying someone whom is chosen by God cannot escape God's hand?

God elects regardless of what anyone may decide themselves. You can even hate God but if your elect, too bad, your saved no matter what?

Are you saying someone whom is chosen by God cannot escape God's hand?

God elects regardless of what anyone may decide themselves. You can even hate God but if your elect, too bad, your saved no matter what?

When God made us in His image, He gave us the gift of 'free will'. This gift of free will allows each of us to reject God and His love in entirety, any time we choose to do so. It wasn't God's will that Judas despaired and hung himself from a tree, but God respected Judas' free will to do so. God respected the Prodigal Son's free will to leave Him for the things of the world. God never pleaded with the son to stay. God let him go.

And God greatly respect our free will to stay with Him or abandon Him. If any of us ends up in hell, it won't be God's will, instead it will be because that is what we chose.

God gave us a free will to choose for or against Him. When you choose, keep your eyes wide open and your mind clear.
You will be faced with many choices in your life, salvation or damnation, God or Satan, evil or good. When you choose, reach out for what you choose. For sure, you will receive what you choose.

You always have the choice of leaving God any time you want.

You will need to prove that.

When God made us in His image, He gave us the gift of 'free will'. This gift of free will allows each of us to reject God and His love in entirety, any time we choose to do so. It wasn't God's will that Judas despaired and hung himself from a tree, but God respected Judas' free will to do so. God respected the Prodigal Son's free will to leave Him for the things of the world. God never pleaded with the son to stay. God let him go.

And God greatly respect our free will to stay with Him or abandon Him. If any of us ends up in hell, it won't be God's will, instead it will be because that is what we chose.

God gave us a free will to choose for or against Him. When you choose, keep your eyes wide open and your mind clear.
You will be faced with many choices in your life, salvation or damnation, God or Satan, evil or good. When you choose, reach out for what you choose. For sure, you will receive what you choose.

You always have the choice of leaving God any time you want.