Translation issue(s)?

One of the problems with translation is the English language itself. For example, Greek has three words for love, English has one. It's the same problem with the word "life. There are three words for life also.

The answer is in Genesis 2:7. God breathed the breath of life into man and he became a living being. The KJV says "living soul" but that is inaccurate. We know that man is a tripartite being, as is God. We are spirit, soul and body. There are 3 words for "life" in Greek. They are bios, physical life, pseuche, soul-life and zoe, which some scholars say that is the uncreated life of God that Jesus has in in Himself. For example, Lord says, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Zoe". I am convinced that this is correct.

When God created man, his human spirit was empty. Adam was alive physically. His soul was also alive, as evidenced by his ability to reason, show emotion and to choose. His body was also obviously alive. When Adam disobeyed, his spirit became submerged in his soul and remained inactive. So Adam lived out of his soul. This is also known as the "natural man".

English usage in KJV times was that "soul" and "life" were synonymous, hence "S.O.S.", which is an abbreviation for "save our souls." Likewise when referring to passengers on a ship, it was not unusual to refer to them as souls. It's not common usage now. So "soul" and "life" are synonymous.

Translators try to differentiate between the soul as the organ of expression and the life that resides in the soul, which makes us who we are as individuals. The first version of the NASB translated "pseuche" as "soul-life". I don't know why that changed. Now translators use context. My understanding is that "soul-life" is a perfectly good translation.

The soul is the means of expression, as I've said before. It is not in itself evil. However, the life of the soul is natural, not spiritual. Therefore is is ruled by the principle of the knowledge of good and evil. It is this principle that causes people to be independent of God, and therefore separated from God. Men do not understand why God would reject them. That is why the Holy Spirit has to convict of sin. People imagine that because they "do the best they can", God should not find fault. Christians know better!

Christians need to realise that the life of the soul is not acceptable to God. The way of the cross is to lose the soul life and replace it with the Life of Christ. This is a lifetime work that God performs. Our trials and troubles should cause us to realise that the soul life is inadequate and bring about more and more dependence on Jesus.

We have inbuilt desires, natural talents, likes and dislikes and we are a certain temperament type. We are born like this. When these natural inclinations clash with God's will, we face a crisis. If we choose self will according to natural desire, we will suffer loss. If we submit to God's will, even if it seems the worst thing possible, we will experience great gain.

Every Christian faces his own, personal "Gethsemane". Here his will and God's will seem implacably opposed. Jesus sought to escape God's will. Yet He said, "Not my will......" and won the greatest triumph ever. We also must capitulate at some time, and escape the snare of the natural man. We then become spiritual in experience.

Mostly because we are of a Western European mindset and not that of Ancient Near Eastern mindset we don't have a more accurate concept of a biblical "soul".

A person's soul is inclusive of body, heart, and spirit.

A spirit is somewhat similar to what we refer to today as disposition or even attitudes.

A heart is where your mind and your will meet up and cause actions. Sometimes your spirit will cause actions but usually its because your Will will teach your spirit. So you can react in a completely knee jerk reaction to something.

We don't have a person divided up in this fashion in our westernized set of thinking....but THEY did. We look at things like personality and cognitive abilities as a person's spirit....but that's not how they did it.

A Life is something that you build for yourself. It includes such things as friends and spouses, children, occupations and standing in your community. It's got very little to do with respiration. But it's related.

A person's blood was thought to belong to God....because all life was created by God. So touching something that didn't belong to you made you unclean.

If you truly read Jeromes Vulgata for Eph 6:6 you be surprise that is has the Latin phrase " ex animo" meaning "from the heart or sincerely" . The Jerome text which you say closest to the original text goes against your claim.

I know he mistranslated it but the Greek Text is still correct and I posted the Verse translated from Greek to English that proves it.

Umm, i understand now your position, seems your unsure about the thing is saying. Anyway, moving forward. Thank you

Excellent points and my understanding of this seems to be the same or similar to yours on all of those points. So why did they use life, or mind, or heart in place where the the Greek word was the one for soul?

Unsure about what? I presented the correct Scripture Version and you refused it because it did not come from concordance interpretation. So go ahead and run along. You literally have nothing to offer at all.

In the New Testament there aren’t other words for soul like there is for love. A soul is a specific thing and there aren’t various types of souls. A soul isn’t a spirit, a heart, a mind, or someone’s life. A soul is a living sentient being, it’s basically what we all are. The physical body is just a way to interact with the physical world.

So the Biblical perspective of what a soul is isn’t that it’s anything other than a disembodied person in soul form. There is proof for this in Revelation 20 before their resurrection.

So the NT writers wouldn’t have used the word soul as a euphemism or a metaphor like how it is used nowadays. I’ve heard it said many times in this thread, “100 souls lost at sea,” but that is a metaphor. I don’t think it was used like that in the Bible. When they said souls were saved in the Bible they really meant that literally.

I’m currently still open to understanding why the translators chose the words they did. I mean I’ve been looking at Greek, Bible concordances, and a lexicon for years and haven’t had any misunderstandings or noticed any strange translation of words into English until now. Really trying to get to the bottom of this and I’ll begin researching online now to see if anyone else can explain this.

It has always been my understanding that s.o.s was spelled out save our ship. I was a Single side-band radio operator in the USAF, also trained in sending and receiving by means of Morse code., and quite a bit more, but this does not say my life long understanding is correct. I like save our souls, but in all my days all said save our ship. Go figure.

I disagree with your interpretation. The soul is the organ of expression. It is fundamentally mind, emotion and will. There is a life that is in the soul. That came about when God breathed the breath of life into Adam.

The life of the soul is independent of God, and that is humanity's problem. The soul life, or natural man, was only meant to enable Adam to choose. Obviously he made the worst possible decision. God is Spirit and we are made in His image. We have a soul, but that is not what we are. We are spirit beings also. The problem for the unbeliever is that the spirit and soul have merged and the soul dominates (Hebrews 4:12). God's intent is to bring us back to normality. That means a spirit that is full of Christ (the "Tree of Life"), a soul that expresses what is in the spirit and a body that enables us to serve the Lord in whatever way pleases Him.

Our soul does not change when we are born again. It is the spirit man that died in Adam and the spirit man that must be brought back to life. Christians need to be delivered from dependence on natural reason and logic, self will and being controlled by emotion. We need instead to be led by the Spirit. In reality, Christians are always being led by the Spirit. A lot of the time, the soul overrides the spirit and so all kinds of troubles and problems arise. (Proverbs 14:12).

It also creates division. Human reasoning and logic varies from individual to individual. That's why there are nearly as many interpretations as there are believers! Human pride assumes that the individual is right and everyone who disagrees is wrong.

We are not compartmentalised beings. Spirit, soul and body are so integrated that they work as one. However, it is possible to discern the functions of each. It helps to know so that we can deal effectively with the problems that afflict every Christian. For example, some people are impulsive, ruled by emotion. I go into a shop knowing what I want and I get it. Others stop and look at everything that grabs their attention. They may buy something just to feel better.

I know someone like that. She spends nearly as much time returning things as she does buying them in the first place. It's not a problem with reason and logic, i.e. the mind. It is a problem with her will. She is weak willed, so she needs to be stronger in that area. Telling her that she needs her mind renewed does not address the real problem.

What I see is that God is more than a Spirit because God has a soul too, though His nature is spiritual:

Matthew 12:18
18Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.

Though I don’t see that God has a physical body, though He can occupy a body if He needs, but He won’t be confined to it. God is simply everywhere.

God also has a mind:

1 Corinthians 2:16
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

God has a heart:

1 Samuel 13:14
14But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept thatwhich the LORD commanded thee.

And people are the same because they are made in the image of God. Perhaps the following verse shows these distinctions most clearest.

Matthew 22:37
37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

So in my understanding the soul is always a soul and is different than feelings or thoughts. I think most English Bibles have a major translation issue on this particular point.

Wow, you are smarter than the many gifted scholars who have studied Greek and Hebrew extensively. I suggest you apply for a post at a major theological institution. I'm sure your deep insights will impress everyone who meets you.

I know you’re just being sarcastic, but it really won’t help many, if anyone, even if it’s true. Most Christians already seem to know everything. If we had a residential Greek expert in this forum, would anyone listen to them if they said the NT has translation issues? Most would constantly refute them like this thread and most other threads.

Actually I researched online and it isn’t helpful. I’ve read a few studies on soul in the NT and some of the top results read like a persuasive speech to help the reader form an opinion.

Why would a study about words need to indoctrinate a reader before they can just began examining the word? I think because there are a number of church doctrines that require the word soul to not be translated as literally soul sometimes.

Most of the sources I’ve seen seem thorough, but they aren’t well-sourced. It’s like they’ll source almost anything except for the reason why soul can be translated as life instead. Very curious.

I originally posted this as a comment, but it didn’t get any attention and it’s buried in a thread now. However, I’m very curious about this because I know there are people way more experienced with Greek than myself so I would love some feedback on this. Thank you!

In the New Testament the word for soul is sometimes translated to say life instead. Sometimes it’s even translated as heart or mind. (See Ephesians 6:6 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose heart and Philippians 1:27 where it uses the word for soul but the translators chose mind.)

G5590 (BibleHub link)
psuché
Strong's Concordance

psuché: breath, the soul
Original Word: ψυχή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: psuché
Phonetic Spelling: (psoo-khay')
Definition: breath, the soul
Usage: (a) the vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.

It’s used 104 times in the New Testament this way, often translated to say life rather than soul. The word for life (physical or spiritual) is something else and it’s G2222 (BibleHub link) in the Strong’s concordance.

Here are some random examples:

John 15:13 KJV
13Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Matthew 11:29 KJV
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Romans 11:3 KJV
3Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Any idea why they replaced the word for soul with life, or mind, or heart in the New Testament when there are already different words for life, heart, and mind in Greek that don’t actually refer to the soul? This isn’t just in the KJV, but most translations I’ve seen.

Before I’m 100% convinced on this that that most English Bibles are translated incorrectly, I really need to see if anyone can explain this for me. This isn’t a small thing. This could be one of the important translation issues for the church to be aware of.

If the word for soul was replaced with words like life, heart, or mind it changes this will dramatically change the way the Bible is interpreted.

Thank you for your time I look forward to some responses.

Here is a brief, googled etymolgy of the word, soul.

Old English sáwol, sáwel
Etymology The modern English word soul derives from the Old English sáwol, sáwel, which itself comes from the Old High German sêula, sêla. The Germanic word is a translation of the Greek psychē (ψυχή- "life, spirit, consciousness") by missionaries such as Ulfila, apostle to the Goths (fourth century C.E.).

It may be the case that the popular concept of 'soul' among Christians is a bit off. I hear people talk about a trinity of man. I got the idea from sermons and commentary that the soul and spirit are kind of like the same things, except the soul has to do with the mind will and emotions. The spirit is somehow supposed to be more important, continues to exist also.

But doing word studies, depending on the word translated 'soul' mean something more along the lines of 'life.' It can mean something like 'the person', 'the individual'. Literally it means something like 'breath'.

Maybe they should stop using 'soul' in the other verses, which people interpret through this other lens. I am wondering if it is the influence of Platonic or neo-Platonic thought that influences the definition of 'soul' somehow, and the idea that the soul is eternal.

Also, one of the Old Testament words translated 'soul' elsewhere refers to animal carcasses. I read where a Greek scholar in a discussion online, from a Classics background, argued that the dead souls in revelation referred to dead bodies seen in the vision. Maybe that was based on how the word was rendered in the LXX, a Greek translation of the Old Testament.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon


Strong's Number: 5590
Original WordWord Origin
yuchvfrom (5594)
Transliterated WordTDNT Entry
Psuche9:608,1342
Phonetic SpellingParts of Speech
psoo-khay' Noun Feminine
Definition

1. breath
   1. the breath of life
      1. the vital force which animates the body and shows itself in breathing 1a
   2. of animals 1a
2. of men
   1. life
   2. that in which there is life
      1. a living being, a living soul
3. the soul
   1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
   2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
   3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)

(Bible Study Tools.)

Also,

Etymology. The basic meaning of the Greek word ψυχή (psyche) was "life", although unsupported, some have claimed it is derived from the verb ψύχω (psycho, "to blow"). Derived meanings included "spirit", "soul", "ghost", and ultimately "self" in the sense of "conscious personality" or "psyche". (Wiki)

And
1640s, "animating spirit, the human spirit or mind," from Latin psyche, from Greek psykhē "the soul, mind, spirit; life, one's life, the invisible animating principle or entity which occupies and directs the physical body; understanding, the mind (as the seat of thought), faculty of reason," also "ghost, spirit of a dead person;" probably akin to psykhein "to blow, breathe," also "to cool, to make dry."
(online etymology)

Life, soul, both perfectly acceptable translations. Online etymology is a secular, not religious source. Likewise Wiki.