King James Bible

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Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Of course. Here you go.

CSB
Some mss include v. 11: For the Son of Man has come to save the lost.

NIV
Some manuscripts include here the words of Luke 19:10. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.’

NASB
Late mss add (traditionally v 11): For the Son of Man has come to save that which was lost

NET
The most significant mss, along with others (א B L* Θ* ƒ1, 13 33 892* e ff1 sys sa), do not include 18:11 “For the Son of Man came to save the lost.” The verse is included in D Lmg N W Γ Δ Θc 078vid 565 579 700 892c 1241 1424 M lat syc,p,h, but is almost certainly not original, being borrowed from the parallel in Luke 19:10. The present translation follows NA28 in omitting the verse number as well, a procedure also followed by a number of other modern translations.

My faith is not so weak that it can be destroyed by knowing some manuscripts differ.
I like the honesty and reality printed in the versions above because I study The Bible.
A great example of the NET footnotes. Just facts! Anyone can look up these early versions and find where 1 John 5:8 can not found, or added. That's another big issue with the KJV. KJV Onlyists keep saying the modern versions have eliminated some words or verses.

Except it is the KJV that adds verses, words and passages. Anyone who has studied the Byzantine Greek manuscripts can point to the time each new word or verse was added, incorporated in the text and passed down to the next generation of a Bibles. These Byzantine Greek texts sprang from nothing in the 8th -10th centuries AD. Then they were recopied by monks and dedicated women (according to Daniel Wallace, who has studied the actual manuscripts in Greece and Constantinople !)! The scribes copied off of an older manuscripts, or being dictated the older manuscripts where errors crept in. Things like not hearing the text clearly, visual mistakes and the margin scribbling incorporated into the new manuscripts. These people were Greek, although later than Koine, and there was a big push to copy as many manuscripts as possible, with Saladin & other Muslims trying to take back Jerusalem, or defending it, depending upon when the manuscripts were written, before ot after several Crusades makes a difference.
So the scribes were rushing and hurrying to copy more manuscripts which also caused sloppy Greek and/or poor penmanship to read a thousand years later!

I trust by far the earlier manuscripts, dating from the 2nd century AD! The Byzantine texts are a translator's worst nightmare! These older manuscripts are in families, are much more accurate than the later, mistake ridden Byzantine copies. In the other hand, the Jews were very strong on destroying any scrolls with a single mistake! This is good, because the later manuscripts were based on following the earlier Hebrew scrolls. This is also bad, because the Jews also destroyed most of the earlier scrolls. Even a perfectly written scroll would wear out from being used frequently and even losing letters or words. So, almost no early Hebrew scrolls still exist. That's why the Desd Sea scrolls
At Qumran were so important. They were written before Jesus was even born. A scroll of Isaiah was almost identical to the Masoretic manuscripts!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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Looks like you posted the footnotes. Are footnotes the pure, holy words of God?
i think letting the reader know why a verse is omitted is important. All the footnotes are just explaining why those KJV added words and verses are not in the newer Bibles. Because they are not in the earliest manuscripts!

Many footnotes are simple, and not difficult to figure out. As I said earlier, having the names of the actual manuscripts determined the outcome of the words!

Ultimately,, it is at. the translators' discretion on whether to omit something, and why, which comes from a lifetime of studying the Bible and the original languages!

Finally, most modern Bibles are translated by a committee. Just like the KJV. The members of the committee pray, discuss the options for translating the original
Greek and what is the best way of translating to English, How do I know this? Because my second year Greek professor was Bill Mounce, who learned Koine Greek from his father, st age 3 or 4, and has been on nearly every Bible translation committee and relayed many interesting tidbits, including a story which happened that week.,

The exception to the committee might be Eugene Peterson's "The Message." That is a paraphrase & more storyline. Not good as a study Bible! But easy to read and understand.

Of course, none of the words of the footnotes are "inspired!" But neither is any other versions- verse or words are "inspired" in the definition you believe. Basically, you want the words to have been said by automatic writing, (an occult belief) that God wrote the perfect words in English. No, even the KJV went through the used translation committee procedures!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,783
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Any idea what language Великийthe word Velyku could be? My 1910 Lithuanian Bible, printed in Berlyne (old spelling for Berlin?) uses that word for easter at Acts12:4. I don't find that word in my 1910 printed in Chicago Lithuanian dictionary and the Google search I did about a year ago came up with possibly the word being Belarus for Great Day.
So Velyku or Великий is Ukrainian, masculine singular! I recognized it right away. The word means "big." Also Didelis in Lithuanian! Duża in Polish, вялікі in Belarusian, and Большой in Russian.

I hope that helps!
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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I found an interesting quote from Constantin von Tischendorf—the "discoverer" of the Sinaitic manuscript—which is very enlightening. It's from his When Were Our Gospels Written? (1866). This was 20 years after his "discovery."

"Learned men have again and again attempted to clear the sacred text from these extraneous elements. But we have at last hit upon a better plan even than this, which is to set aside this textus receptus altogether, and to construct a fresh text, derived immediately from the most ancient and authoritative sources. This is undoubtedly the right course to take, for in this way only can we secure a text approximating as closely as possible to that which came from the Apostles." pp. 21-22​

Notice what he says: "set aside this textus receptus altogether."

Does this sound like honest textual criticism? Of course not. It's a clear indication that the motive isn't to get at the truth closest to the Apostles, but an agenda to be rid of the textus receptus for good.

And who is this "we" he mentions?


See: https://archive.org/details/whenwereourgospe0000tisc/page/21/mode/1up
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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You do know that the NKJV uses the corrupt manuscripts. It’s not the KJV with updated language. That’s a lie from the old serpent.
Prove that any scripture in the NKJV is corrupt.

It uses the Byzantine text. The same text Erasmus used to create the received text.
You do know Erasmus was a platonist and a Catholic scholastic who debated Luther in the Heidelberg disputations.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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I had 2 uncles who were Lithuanian. Both by marriage. They were not related, but went together to visit their homeland about 20 years before they died,(Both were ESL speaking Lithuanian first!)

As for me, my DNA tests show about 5% Baltic DNA. So far, I have not determined which of the 3 countries I am, but likely Lithuanian since it is closest to Poland, and at different times one ruled the other. I have a lot of Polish blood. And Ukrainian on my father's side.

(One note about Putin's claims that Russian and Ukrainian are similar. First, although they both use Cyrillic for the letters, some letters sound completely different. As I am finding out, Polish and Ukrainian are very similar, and they can understand the other language when spoken, although Polish uses to the Latin alphabet, and a lot of accent masks!)

What does this have to do with the KJV? Just that almost every language has Bibles translated into their language, which are usually easy to read.. I'm learning Ukrainian and Polish, so I can read the Bible in those languages. Of course, the only Bible I have never gotten through is the KJV! Too many obsolete words and grammar, as well as the tendency to follow Greek word order, which translates into bad English. Greek has cases and English does not. We ordered our words usually subject-verb-predicate. Greek word order can use Nominative, Accusative, Dative and Genitive cases with the occasional Optative. In other words, the nominative, which would likely be the subject in English, but in Greek you can start a sentence with the accusative. You can have a predicate nominative, too! Although Polish and Ukrainian have 7 cases, the word order is "flexible!"

I like that Greek has cases, and German has 4 cases. Both Ukrainian & Polish have 7 cases. I'm glad I know other languages that have cases. Hebrew has many different forms, but not cases. It is much closer to English word order than Greek. I compared Hebrew to the KJV in seminary, and the KJV was very close. Despite the translators of the KJV tendency to follow Greek word order, there are many instances where it messes up, because the English & Greek are not comparable languages.

I read Greek well, having 2 years of Master's degree courses. I only have one year of Hebrew, but I don't use it as much as Greek, so some of it has been lost. A brush-up course, perhaps? (I also read a Greek NT & German Bible daily, along with m NET Bible. I do agree footnotes can be misleading, but the 66K footnotes in the NET are mostly about translating a word from the original languages to English, or historical, geographical, or interesting scholarship about a verse. Very little bias, except being conservative. The ESV footnotes have a lot of bias, one of the reasons I stopppprd using it after a few years of reading the Bible through.
I would love to have a conversation with you.
I have very different opinions of the Russo Ukrainian war.
I am very novice at Greek. But I love the History of the Church (bible translation is a part of that subject) but a small part. The storys behind the translators are more compelling, and quite telling.
 

Dirtman

Well-known member
Jul 19, 2022
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Can you give your best shot here in the NKJV that corrects the KJV? Thank you
Isaiah 13:15 corrects joined to captured.
Verse 21 changes satyr to goat. There is more but for brevity sake lets stop there.
 

Evmur

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Feb 28, 2021
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London
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From the little history of 16th and 17th century England which I've read and mostly on Wikipedia it seems that the KJV was the outcome of the desire for the English king to put himself in charge of church and state. So I've read somewhere the divine right of kings was of primary importance in the making of this translation?????? So if we use the KJV we need to know that it is biased that way???
It's not quite true, the Puritans were a thorn in Jame's side ... in fact he hated them [the Stuarts were wicked] so when they lobbied him for greater reforms he refused them, he allowed them to translate the bible as a sop.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Scripture tells us that there is more than one, confirming the modern translations:

2 Corinthians 12:2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven.
Yep, but in Genesis 1:1 it is specifically taking about the earth and the heaven, the first heaven of the earth....you know, where birds fly.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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Prove that any scripture in the NKJV is corrupt.

It uses the Byzantine text. The same text Erasmus used to create the received text.
You do know Erasmus was a platonist and a Catholic scholastic who debated Luther in the Heidelberg disputations.
Look no further than the first verse of the bible, Genesis 1:1.
 
P

persistent

Guest
It's not quite true, the Puritans were a thorn in Jame's side ... in fact he hated them [the Stuarts were wicked] so when they lobbied him for greater reforms he refused them, he allowed them to translate the bible as a sop.
I'm not much of a historian and use Wikipedia>>The Puritan party hoped to capitalize James's previous station as the King of Scotland, where he had administered the mostly Presbyterian Scots of the Church of Scotland. Among the most significant grievances leveled by the Puritans were their opposition to ritualism. From article on Millenary Petition. Sounds like Puritans and James were anti Catholic. Another investigation for Lucy Worsley here? Maybe her history is more accurate. Can't prove it by me.
 

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Yep, but in Genesis 1:1 it is specifically taking about the earth and the heaven, the first heaven of the earth....you know, where birds fly.
And the second, where the great lights and the stars were formed.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Prove that any scripture in the NKJV is corrupt.
Look no further than the first verse of the bible, Genesis 1:1.
KJV In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

NKJV In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

My goodness, the corruption is unbelievable! Call the elders! Summon the media! Kick the dog!

smh...

John146, you really should think before posting. It will save you from looking like a fool.