Obedience Required?

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Wansvic

Wansvic

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#1
Nov 27, 2018
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#1
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2
Mar 1, 2022
18,867
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#2
Wansvic said:
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
Click to expand...
Obedience like works are evidence of salvation, not its cause.
If one truly understands what happens in salvation one would see that in being born again is to be alive to God and His reality. Before we could understand that He existed and created by the things that are made. We could also understand the difference between right and wrong through our conscience. But we could not relate to Him intimately or find our satisfaction in Him.
All this changed when we were regenerated and made alive when the Holy Spirit took up residence in us. It is His work in us that over time changes our desires from those that promote self to those that promote God and others.
Since we have already found peace with God, we are no longer attempting to keep the commandments as a means to assuage God's wrath. Rather, we desire holiness because it pleases and glorifies God.
I often come across those who believe if osas is true it is a license to sin. What they fail to understand is that when one is truly freed from the penalty of sin, they are also freed from its power and freed unto obedience in Christ. It was before salvation one desired to sin. After, we desire to obey.
Paul addressed this when he asked should we sin that grace may abound? And his resounding answer was God forbid. Such is the heart cry of every true believer.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#3
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
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#3
Wansvic said:
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
Click to expand...
amen faith doesn’t mean “ now I have faith and no longer need to obey God “ faith means we actually believe what he’s saying enough to act on it and receive the blessing of promise it holds

“and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

V

“and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;”
‭‭2 Thessalonians‬ ‭1:7-9‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#4
Feb 24, 2009
3,228
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#4
Saved by grace through believing Jesus is who He said He is.

No works involved.

Obedience is the reasonable response to being delivered. Not the vehicle by which deliverance is given.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#5
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
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#5
Wansvic said:
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
Click to expand...

Obedience comes after a person is born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The unregenerate person will not obey a spiritual law given by a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14 says that he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#6
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
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#6
Cameron143 said:
We could also understand the difference between right and wrong through our conscience. But we could not relate to Him intimately or find our satisfaction in Him.
Click to expand...

I agree that we must be reborn spiritually before we will be obedient to God's spiritual laws, but my understanding is that before the unregenerate person has a conscience that he has broken God's law is after he has been born again, and had his heart of stone exchanged for a fleshy heart that can be pricked by God.
 
Pilgrimshope

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
#7
Sep 2, 2020
13,884
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#7
wattie said:
Saved by grace through believing Jesus is who He said He is.

No works involved.

Obedience is the reasonable response to being delivered. Not the vehicle by which deliverance is given.
Click to expand...
it seems more important if we allow Paul’s teachkngs actually to penetrate our heart

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

shouldn’t we also believe the rest of Paul’s words not just select certain verses ? Like his warnkngs against this type of living

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

Can you acknowledge those things regarding obedience also ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we acknolwedge the truth repentance will come by the power of Gods spirit into our life and that freedom we read about comes
 
wattie

wattie

Senior Member
#8
Feb 24, 2009
3,228
1,124
113
New Zealand
#8
Pilgrimshope said:
it seems more important if we allow Paul’s teachkngs actually to penetrate our heart

“Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings: that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:12-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

shouldn’t we also believe the rest of Paul’s words not just select certain verses ? Like his warnkngs against this type of living

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-7‬ ‭

Can you acknowledge those things regarding obedience also ?

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

if we acknolwedge the truth repentance will come by the power of Gods spirit into our life and that freedom we read about comes
Click to expand...
Yes, the obedience is a response to having been delivered. That is how we follow God. That's following His commands. But the obedience isn't the means by which eternal salvation is given. It's the reasonable response to having been saved. The saved person also will exhibit fruit from being saved. That's the natural result of having the Holy Spirit indwell their soul.

Salvation is believing Jesus is God, that He lived a sinless life, died on the cross and rose again. That by believing in Him we have sins forgiven and eternal life. That is it.

Works are our response after-- having believed earlier.
 
L

loveme1

Senior Member
#9
Oct 30, 2011
8,137
216
63
#9
The Lord Himself taught obedience… The Lord teaches us the Law of Love. A Labour of love. Love is a verb.. a doing word. It can’t be feigned.. for Love produces fruit.

The biggest error in some belief systems is misunderstanding what works is being spoken of by Paul. The Old Covenant was still being adhered to.. the New Covenant is the Testimony of our Lord and Saviour.

Go read His Testimony and see if there is work expected… it is summarised as Love GOD and Love your neighbour.
Life is difficult as we abide… believe unto the end and we shall be saved.

Just recently I realised that loving those that love us is easy.. it is loving those that hate you… that is a work indeed.
Love, Forgiveness and Everlasting life. Those 3 words I share with you all.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#10
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#10
Pilgrimshope said:
Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Click to expand...

The kingdom of God has reference to Christ's church, which is one of many names that apply to the church. Some of those that will enter heaven will not be accepted as members of Christ's church, because of these practices.
 
C

CorrectiveLens

Banned
#11
Dec 30, 2020
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#11
Wansvic said:
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
Click to expand...
It is not that the Holy Ghost is given as a reward to those that obey, but those that obey is evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#12
Jan 18, 2011
12,277
6,654
113
#12
loveme1 said:
The Lord Himself taught obedience… The Lord teaches us the Law of Love. A Labour of love. Love is a verb.. a doing word. It can’t be feigned.. for Love produces fruit.

The biggest error in some belief systems is misunderstanding what works is being spoken of by Paul. The Old Covenant was still being adhered to.. the New Covenant is the Testimony of our Lord and Saviour.

Go read His Testimony and see if there is work expected… it is summarised as Love GOD and Love your neighbour.
Life is difficult as we abide… believe unto the end and we shall be saved.

Just recently I realised that loving those that love us is easy.. it is loving those that hate you… that is a work indeed.
Love, Forgiveness and Everlasting life. Those 3 words I share with you all.
Click to expand...
love your enemies, bless those who curse you, pray for those who spitefully use you.

that is hard work indeed.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#13
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
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#13
wattie said:
Saved by grace through believing Jesus is who He said He is.

No works involved.

Obedience is the reasonable response to being delivered. Not the vehicle by which deliverance is given.
Click to expand...
You may want to seriously consider what the scripture actually says; obedience brings about the reality of being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. ",,,the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

The message initially presented at Pentecost conveys this truth: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:38-40


"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:9-11
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#14
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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113
#14
ForestGreenCook said:
Obedience comes after a person is born again and given the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The unregenerate person will not obey a spiritual law given by a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14 says that he cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness.
Click to expand...
The scripture actually says obedience brings about the reality of receiving the Holy Ghost, not the other way around:
"...the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
 
Robertt

Robertt

Well-known member
#15
May 22, 2019
899
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Bahrain
#15
those that abide in Him . He will abide in you.

WE are not saved by Good works but saved to do good works.

But it is still a choice, Being saved does not take away your free will. God does not take charge of your life and make you do the Right thing. we must choose to do the right thing.

Loving God and our neighbours is a choice. it is a work to love, love is not just a feeling but a promise, and must have actions.

if you not feeing the hungry and helping the poor then how can we say we are saved.

Good works will follow the saved, not by God making you do it, but by you choosing to do them.

Too many people sit around saying they saved and have no evidence of it. They refuse to do works as they are taught works are not of good they are religion. The bible in new testement teaches what true relgion is. it is doing works, by choice.
Now we still have fleshly thoughts and desires, but we must refrain from following them. WE must listen to the guidance from the Holy Spirit and obey.

Remember, obedience is better than sacrifice .
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#16
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
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#16
CorrectiveLens said:
It is not that the Holy Ghost is given as a reward to those that obey, but those that obey is evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...
Acquiring one's spiritual rebirth involves being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. This comes about through obedience. Peter stated the requirements to those who believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection on the Day of Pentecost. The message involved being born both of water and Spirit. (Acts 2:38-40)

After being born again through belief and obedience to the God-given commands, individual's are then empowered to pursue a life acceptable to God through the indwelling Holy Ghost.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#17
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
113
#17
CorrectiveLens said:
It is not that the Holy Ghost is given as a reward to those that obey, but those that obey is evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost.
Click to expand...
Please read what the scripture actually says: "...the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." It says God gave the Holy Ghost to those who obeyed Him. Does it not?
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#18
Sep 27, 2018
1,470
689
113
#18
Wansvic said:
You may want to seriously consider what the scripture actually says; obedience brings about the reality of being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. ",,,the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him."

The message initially presented at Pentecost conveys this truth: "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, AND YE SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation." Acts 2:38-40


"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." Rom. 8:9-11
Click to expand...
I think the key word here is “Obey,” and what act of obedience actually fulfills this requirement. I think it relates to the question He was asked by a group, “So then they said to him, "What must we do to accomplish the deeds God requires?" John 6:29, Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” Truly believing His words changes everything.
 
Wansvic

Wansvic

Well-known member
#19
Nov 27, 2018
5,247
1,104
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#19
The referenced scripture pertains to obedience that brings about one's spiritual rebirth: "Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32

Acquiring one's spiritual rebirth involves being indwelt by the Holy Ghost. This comes about through obedience. Peter stated the requirements to those who believed in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection on the Day of Pentecost. The message involved being born both of water and Spirit. (Acts 2:38-40)

After being born again through belief and obedience to the God-given commands, individual's are then empowered to pursue a life acceptable to God through the indwelling Holy Ghost.
 
Komentaja

Komentaja

Active member
#20
Jul 29, 2022
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#20
Wansvic said:
Receiving the Holy Ghost becomes a reality for those who are willing to obey:

"Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him." Acts 5:31-32
Click to expand...
First step of obedience is to get baptized. Unfortunately many churches neglect this and make people wait in queue to get baptized. In the New Testament it was done immediately.
 
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