Doctrine of Unconditional Election

Im asking is one believing in the Jesus presented in the scripture, who came strictly to save His People from their sins as announced Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Or are they believing in the false jesus manufactured by man, that jesus who died for everyone and provides them an opportunity to get saved ?

In your example, God did save him.

The day of our death is better than the day of our birth.

Where in the verse do you find that something is required of the recipient?

It says only they that "come to God by him" - BY HIM
You've added words to the verse that it just does not say.

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Not only is it a spiritual reality, itis THE spiritual reality. It is that upon which the entire Bible was built. Otherwise, there
can be no Saviour. You are left under the saviour that you propose - a kind of, but not really, saviour, by which, you remain under works.

Of course not. No one dead in spiritual sin can have a free will.

Just as a physically dead person cannot make decisions regarding human life, neither can a spiritually dead person make decisions regarding spiritual life.

[1Ti 2:4 KJV] 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

The "all" of 1Ti. 2:24 is defined in Jhn6:37 below. That "all" is all those given to Jesus by the Father, not everyone.

[Jhn 6:36-37 KJV] 36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

The salutation of 2 Pet 1:1 explains who the intended audience is of the 2 Pet 3:9. It is not to everyone but only to those who have THROUGH Jesus Christ obtained "like precious faith". They alone are the "us-ward".

[2Pe 3:9 KJV] 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

[2Pe 1:1 KJV] 1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:

Eze 33:11 was directed to the earthly house of OT Isarel. They followed and worshipped false gods and had turned away from the
LORD committing fornication. This verse is not about a path to eternal spiritual salvation by grace.

[Eze 33:11 KJV] 11 Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Yeah, I've heard that joke before too.

We definitely have differing views of the Saviour. Mine who saves solely through His grace, which grace was provided by His faith and not by our works. He has already satisfied all needed for the salvation of His people. Yours, not so much. No other Saviour can meet/has met all of the requirements of a Saviour that He must imbue for Him to be the one.

Man cant believe and cannot repent.

Thats false, its not mere opportunity, its repentance given. And its given only to Gods Elect, also called Israel in Acts 5:31

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Thank you sweet Rosemary, and good day The mother of my best friend all through high school suggested that I read the gospel of John three times, and I did that as a non-believer, but mostly before coming to believe, I was not keen on reading Scripture at all. I also had Christian friends and I remember reading things like Ephesians with them and discussing it, but I have no recollection of how much if any I understood of it at that time. I only did that because we were friends, and I enjoyed their company and just hanging out with them; they really were lovely people, and of course they were interested in the salvation of my soul. One such friend gave me a study Bible on the occasion of my 42nd birthday. When I was baptized almost eight years later, she instructed the pastor to hold me down a long time because I had so many sins to wash away. LOL. My process was fairlry long, and some points really stand out to me. Even so, after what I believe was the circumcision of my heart, and I started going to church more regularly, I was invited to an Alpha Course through yet another Christian friend whom I knew in AA. It was while going through that, in realizing that the course was designed to convince people of the Truth of God's Word, that I also realized I needed no more convincing. There was no aha moment of Oh, I get it now, just, oh, I have stopped fighting God, I am ready to surrender. God had done much work in me already. Praise the Lord, for He is good, His love endures forever. Not for nothing do I express my gratitude for His patience and loving kindness toward me, in allowing me to survive the stupidity of my youth.

It is so very interesting how differently we walked up to that point, even with the many similarities, such as being delivered from alcoholism and addiction. I cried out to the God I did not believe in for help when I was 39, and was almost immediately relieved of the desire to use mind and mood altering substances after 24 years of such. I was a seeker for many years, but very much averse to the Bible and that God, even after He revealed His love and forgiveness to me when I was 33, when I was in such a broken state after the dissolution of my marriage. I did treasure that which was imparted to me, even as I continued to reject the Giver. My church family always laugh good naturally at how I walked away from that experience thinking along the lines of how wonderful it was to know I was loved and forgiven... too bad it had to happen in a church. I had gone to a neighbourhood church around Passover right after the failure of my marriage to see a movie on the life of Christ based on the Gospel of Luke. And yes, imparted to me along with the experience of His unconditional love and forgiveness through the cross of Christ, was the knowledge that I was a sinner, and that I was to the uttermost unworthy of that which He was granting to me. I wept.

Amen sister...
God knew you would come to Him , and He works through people...Them people you hung with sounds like they were gifts from God even though you did not know at the time...He did not give up on you , and here we are , sisters in Christ...Sent with love...xox...

Amen, sister!!!

Rom 10:9; John 3:16; Acts 16:30-31; more.

You interpret "come unto God by him" as a Calvinist, I do not.

No, Jesus Christ is absolutely the Savior.

I have heard those Calvinist interpretaitons before. I don't agree.

Anyone can choose to believe the gospel of Jesus Christ.

God won't save people against their will.

You stopped reading Romans too soon. In order to believe, God must first renew the heart, from/by that, confession is made.
God only gives a new heart to those born-again.

[Rom 10:10 KJV] 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

[Eze 36:26 KJV] 26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

True belief only comes from becoming born-again. For Paul to have said that to them, they had already been born-again.
As newly saved people, they were teaching/informing them regarding the doctrine of the salvation, had they not been born-again, they would be unable to truly believe on Christ - but believe they did.
The "shalt be saved" is the final salvation on the last day.

[Act 16:31 KJV] 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
[Act 16:34 KJV] 34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,



Huh? Come to God by Him, means, well, it means come to God by Him. There just is no other way to interpret it.



Not according to your stated beliefs. He can't be the Saviour and yet not be the one who saves in all ways.



The verses are clear regarding who the "all" is. Your concurrence with that is not needed to make it so.

[1Ti 2:4 KJV] 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

[Jhn 6:37 KJV] 37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.



See Gal 5:22 above. Faith only comes from being born again by the Holy Spirit. Any faith produced by a person and
not given by God, is only a faith in themselves and not in Christ.



God saves whomever He had chosen to salvation regardless of whether the doing is out of their will or with no will of theirs at all. He is God and as such it is His divine prerogative, right, and good pleasure to save whomever He has chosen whenever He wants,
and to not save those whom He has not chosen. It is all of God and nothing of ourselves. God informs us that it was His intention to execute His prerogative in that regard which He has done. For an example/demonstration of that, look at the conversion of Saul of Tarsus.

[Rom 9:18 KJV] 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.

Not according to scripture. You should read Galatians 4 again.

1st Corinthians 15 Paul says what we are to believe.

Peter didn't get that memo.

Acts 2:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

That scripture doesnt change anything. Man cant repent or believe until he has been born again.

Believe in who ?

Do you agree then with bf52 that men cannot believe and men cannot repent?

That seems a very odd thing for anyone to say, to me.

Because that would mean you have neither repented nor believed.

Only the born again person would repent of breaking one of God's laws.

IOW, you think that scripture is meaningless.

You think Peter didn't know what he was talking about when the people asked him "What shall we do?" and his answer was to "repent." You think Peter told them something that was impossible for them to do.

"I don't care what the Bible says, man can't repent or believe until he has been born again."

..stick to your guns, bf52.

IOW, you think that scripture is meaningless.

You think Peter didn't know what he was talking about when the people asked him "What shall we do?" and his answer was to "repent." You think Peter told them something that was impossible for them to do.

"I don't care what the Bible says, man can't repent or believe until he has been born again."

..stick to your guns, bf52.