Any Post or Non-Tribbers in Here?

The Scriptures do not mention the antichrist

Read 2-Thess 2 with the perspective that unless the Antichrist comes 1st THEN

Read 2-Thess 2 with the perspective that

... that we instead "read the text" for what it actually states, and not what it does not state. = )

Read 2-Thess 2 with the perspective that unless the Antichrist comes 1st THEN comes the Lord's coming to gather/Rapture

I find nothing in the New Testament about a Church rapture prior to the 2nd coming.

I look forward to seeing Jesus again. I don't know when that will be, but it will be wonderful. In the meanwhile, I am ready for whatever may come through the worlds door.

@Beckie 's Post #917, where you'd said:



CONSIDER:

[re: "the man of sin"]

1) 2Th2:9a - "whose COMING [/ARRIVAL / ADVENT / PRESENCE / Parousia";

2Th2:4a - "who OPPOSETH... EXALTETH... [ABOVE ALL that is called god]"

[compare with]

2) 1Jn2:18a - "ye have heard that ANTICHRIST IS COMING" (where the phrase "ye have heard" [like is repeated in Matt5] points back to what the OT scriptures had said...)

3) Dan9:26b "the prince [LXX - G2233 - hegeomai (Ezek43:7LXX for "king" 2x)] THAT SHALL COME / IS COMING [participle]"
(the part in CAPS and underlined would be superfluous if this verse were referring to the same person as back in vv.25,26a [and considering that Dan9:25-27 is written SEQUENTIALLY, this part comes AFTER the part in v.26a about "shall Messiah be CUT OFF and have nothing [/but not for himself]"--i.e. after His/Jesus' arrest/trials/death on the Cross--comp. Jer11:19 with what was said of Jesus])

... that we instead "read the text" for what it actually states, and not what it does not state. = ) (it does not state what you've put )

[putting this here for the readers]


the word "FIRST" connects with the first clause, not the second clause (in v.3);


So, instead, reads: "...if not shall have come THE Departure FIRST and ['and' distinctly... even, consequently] the man of sin be revealed"

(the text does NOT read, as many suppose: "if not shall have [been] the man of sin revealed FIRST")



Also, the definite article ("THE") in the first clause ("THE Departure") functions to point BACK to something already having been mentioned in the text (i.e. v.1's Subject), not pointing forward to something further on down in the text (such as vv.10-12,9b... or the like)



So, I would encourage that instead of:



... that we instead "read the text" for what it actually states, and not what it does not state. = ) (it does not state what you've put )

I don't see it that way.
I am 100% convinced of the pre-trib rapture. And future literal millennial Kingdom ruled by King Jesus on His throne in the Temple in Jerusalem.

Really....all of this is boilerplate Biblical doctrine. Not to mention the signs of the end-times manifesting themselves on a daily basis at this point.

Yep....it is all coming together.

You would think that the a-mills, post-mills, preterists and historicists would have abandoned their posts by now. I know I would have.

I could have quest that you and probably all others would not "see" it that way but Paul said
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

And NOW you know what withholds The Lord's coming for us and our gathering together and Day of The Lord = Millennium.
Paul just told you what's delaying the 3 things that are the subject matter given in verses one and two.
By teaching that verse 3 and 4 must come 1st, then the Rapture when The Lord comes to set up His kingdom with us.

You may not believe me
BUT you have Paul and without excuse

Simply put, there are some things that must happen 1st before The Lord raptures and glorifies His bride and so it is when these preappointed events happen, then His coming becomes BIBLICALLY immanent.

And NOW you know what withholds [...]
Paul just told you what's delaying the 3 things that are [...]

Hello. I took a look at the Greek and the textural variants, as well as the English translations and I am not sure what your point is. Who is misquoting the scripture here? I agree that the apostasy must come first, then the man of lawlessness will be revealed. I thought everyone knew this. So exactly what point are you making?

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NIV) Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Berean Literal Bible) No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Bible) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Literal Standard Version) do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because if the departure may not come first, the man of lawlessness may [not] be revealed—the son of destruction,

The bible uses "the rebellion" or "falling away" or "apostasy" to describe the act of shallow Christians that will turn away or abandon the Lord.

Also note that the word "departure" in the Literal Standard Version means "departure from faith".

Pre-tribbers define the word "departure" instead as that secret rapture they've been longing for.

So they read 2 Thessalonians 3 as "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the departure (secret rapture) occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."

-=<*>=-

I think what might very well happen is when the antichrist shows up and when they see no secret rapture, that a lot of them will definitely depart...from the faith, and thus fulfill this prophecy.

I think pre-tribbers believe in this false teaching because it's too horrible to consider all the things that will happen to Christians in the great tribulation. But this is why the Lord and all the NT writers urge us to build up our faith so that we don't fall away, to endure even unto death. The Lord will help you with this if you start building up your faith right now.

So if pre-tribbers want to believe in that false teaching to make yourselves feel better, at least build up your faith so when this teaching doesn't happen, your faith will endure to the end and you won't be one of those who have departed from the faith.

And NOW you know what withholds The Lord's coming for us....

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NIV) Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Berean Literal Bible) No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Bible) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Literal Standard Version) do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because if the departure may not come first, the man of lawlessness may [not] be revealed—the son of destruction,

The bible uses "the rebellion" or "falling away" or "apostasy" to describe the act of shallow Christians that will turn away or abandon the Lord.

Also note that the word "departure" in the Literal Standard Version means "departure from faith".

Pre-tribbers define the word "departure" instead as that secret rapture they've been longing for.

So they read 2 Thessalonians 3 as "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the departure (secret rapture) occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."

-=<*>=-

I think what might very well happen is when the antichrist shows up and when they see no secret rapture, that a lot of them will definitely depart...from the faith, and thus fulfill this prophecy.

I think pre-tribbers believe in this false teaching because it's too horrible to consider all the things that will happen to Christians in the great tribulation. But this is why the Lord and all the NT writers urge us to build up our faith so that we don't fall away, to endure even unto death. The Lord will help you with this if you start building up your faith right now.

So if pre-tribbers want to believe in that false teaching to make yourselves feel better, at least build up your faith so when this teaching doesn't happen, your faith will endure to the end and you won't be one of those who have departed from the faith.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (NIV) Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Berean Literal Bible) No one should deceive you in any way, because it is not until the apostasy shall have come first, and the man of lawlessness shall have been revealed--the son of destruction,

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (King James Bible) Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (Literal Standard Version) do not let anyone deceive you in any way, because if the departure may not come first, the man of lawlessness may [not] be revealed—the son of destruction,

The bible uses "the rebellion" or "falling away" or "apostasy" to describe the act of shallow Christians that will turn away or abandon the Lord.

Also note that the word "departure" in the Literal Standard Version means "departure from faith".

Pre-tribbers define the word "departure" instead as that secret rapture they've been longing for.

So they read 2 Thessalonians 3 as "Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the departure (secret rapture) occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction."

-=<*>=-

I think what might very well happen is when the antichrist shows up and when they see no secret rapture, that a lot of them will definitely depart...from the faith, and thus fulfill this prophecy.

I think pre-tribbers believe in this false teaching because it's too horrible to consider all the things that will happen to Christians in the great tribulation. But this is why the Lord and all the NT writers urge us to build up our faith so that we don't fall away, to endure even unto death. The Lord will help you with this if you start building up your faith right now.

So if pre-tribbers want to believe in that false teaching to make yourselves feel better, at least build up your faith so when this teaching doesn't happen, your faith will endure to the end and you won't be one of those who have departed from the faith.

I am more than comfortable sticking with these earliest translations. For the reasons delineated below....

https://christianchat.com/threads/2...ly-describing-the-rapture.201570/post-4666867

TRANSLATION HISTORY

The first seven English translations of apostasia all rendered the noun as either “departure” or “departing.” They are as follows: Wycliffe Bible (1384); Tyndale Bible Page (1526); Coverdale Bible (1535); Cranmer Bible (1539); Breeches Bible (1576); Beza Bible (1583); Geneva Bible (1608).7 This supports the notion that the word truly means “departure.” In fact, Jerome’s Latin translation known as the Vulgate from around the time of A.D. 400 renders apostasia with the “word discessio, meaning ‘departure.’”

Why was the King James Version the first to depart from the established translation of “departure”? Most scholars say that no one knows the reason for the translation shift. However, a plausible theory has been put forth by Martin Butalla in his Master of Theology thesis produced at Dallas Theology Seminary in 1998.9 It appears that the Catholic translation into English from Jerome’s Latin Vulgate known as the Rheims Bible (1576) was the first to break the translation trend. “Apostasia was revised from ‘the departure’ to ‘the Protestant Revolt,’” explains Butalla. “Revolution is the terminology still in use today when Catholicism teaches the history of the Protestant Reformation. Under this guise, apostasia would refer to a departure of Protestants from the Catholic Church.” The Catholic translators appear eager to engage in polemics against the Reformation by even allowing it to impact Bible translation. By 1611, when then original version of the King James Bible came out, the translators changed the English translation tradition from “departure” to “falling away,” which implied “apostasy.” Such a change was a theological response to the Catholic notion that the Reformation was a revolt against the true church; instead, Protestants saw Catholic beliefs as “the falling away” or “the great apostasy. This would mean that the shift in translation was not based upon research of the meaning of the original language but as a theological polemic against the false teachings of Romanism. It is well established that E. Schuyler English is thought to be the first pretribulationist to propose that “the departure” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was a physical departure and thus a reference to the pre-trib rapture. However, history records that at least a couple of men thought of this idea before English’s series of article in 1950.11 J. S. Mabie is said to have presented the view that “the departure” refers to the rapture as early as 1859 during a prophecy conference in Los Angeles.12 He later wrote his view in an article published in November 1895 in a periodical called Morning Star. 13 Another pre-English proponent of “the departure” as the rapture was John R. Rice in a book in 1945.1