Salvation is for the Whole World

Grace through faith. Both are of the gift of salvation. If salvation is a gift, then everything required for
that salvation must also be part of the gift. It can't be just one if that's what you mean
because then it wouldn't be grace - each must be part of the gift in order for salvation to be a gift.

And you don't realize what the words you're reading actually mean. Salvation required both faith and grace, all of which were through and by God and not of ourselves. That is why He has the title of Saviour and we don't.

Isaiah 45:22 + Revelation 3:2

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

Yeah, but the hearing is with spiritual ears, not human ears. Only those born-again have been so blessed as to have spiritual ears that hear.

[Mat 13:16 KJV] 16 But blessed [are] your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

[Mat 11:15 KJV]
15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mat 13:9, 43 KJV]
9 Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. ...
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar
4:9, 23 KJV] 9 And he said unto them, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. ... 23 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.
[Mar 7:16 KJV]
16 If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

No, you don't have to go through it again. The Bible says faith isn't a work, the verses shared prove that.

It isn't but only because true faith is Christ's work. Should we believe faith is of ourselves and not of Christ, then it would be a work and
not true faith.

Your confusion knows no bounds.

So are we now okay with what is the gift of God and that is salvation? Salvation is by grace through faith and that is the correct wording and not "through and by God and not of ourselves." as you are describing what is faith. Of course, we are trying to discuss what is the gift of God which is salvation The "not of ourselves " refers to the gift meaning to say, it's not ours. It's God, I only possessed it by faith ie. "through faith". A gift needs to be received, that's simple. And if I receive it by faith did I work for it? NO! I just received what is being presented to me

No, unquestionably wrong! if salvation is the gift then everything that went into bringing that gift to fruition must also be a gift including faith. The faith that brought salvation was Christ's faith(fulness) to the Father, not ours. Our faith was a gift to us and was dispensed to those born again through the fruit of the Spirit but because of Christ's faith.
Anything that someone must do to contribute to it, if it is their required contribution, makes it both a work and a law, and no one can be saved by attempting to satisfy either of those.
You are assessing the receiving of the gift in human terms, not God's terms. A spiritually dead person is incapable of themselves to receive any spiritual gift. As we are clearly informed in Jhn 6:29, true belief is solely a work of God and not of ourselves thereby making it both a work and God's work alone. I don't see how it can possibly be made any clearer than was made in that verse.

[Rev 2:13 KJV] 13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.

[Jhn 6:29 KJV] 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

You can't grasp that ? Really? Guess I underestimated you.

"Guess I underestimated you."
Make my last reply "overestimated you".

In this dogma, faith has to be a gift so that the system stays in tact, that is why they argue so strongly, it is not about scripture it is about preserving the system.

So the conversation will always go round and round and the irony is it may take a work of the God, a gift of revelation, to remove the self-inflicted blinders.

You just believe that you have to earn your salvation one way or the other and are unable to place your trust solely in Christ
as the Saviour not and in yourself. An odd point of view for a Christian to believe the Saviour isn't really the Saviour, don't you think?

See!

Christ is a Savior 100%

No one has stated they earn their salvation, that is the nuance you cannot seem to grasp.

Accept and earn are two different concepts.

Reminds me of the annilationists where word meanings are changed so it all lines up.

Please put me on ignore. I will pray for your blinders to be removed.

I may have temporarily used the wrong word, but you perpetually trust in the wrong doctrine - yours is
the greater error.

Will do and I will pray for you too.

Comical, but it is you that is spreading a false doctrine. Rom 1 is all about, those that are called of God, who have turned away from God, and hold the truth in unrighteousness, because that which may be known of God is manifest in them for God hath shewed it unto them, because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God.


These are not the natural man that cannot discern the things of the Spirit, and thinks them to be foolishness, but these are backsliding children of God. The natural man thinks creation evolved, and that God had nothing to do with it.

The natural person, who has not been reborn spiritually, only has faith in mankind, (1 Cor 2:14), and his accomplishments. Spiritual faith only comes to us as a fruit of the Holy Spirit, as he indwells us in the new birth. (Gal 5:22 & Eph 12:1).