Salvation by works
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the first thing to consider, is that the natural man, before he has been born again, has no spiritual faith, which is a fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
Secondly, Jesus faithfulness in going to the cross, is what justifies us eternally, and our spiritual faith justifies us timely.
People misinterpret Eph 2:8, claiming the faith in that verse, is their faith, instead of Jesus faithfulness in going to the cross, which corresponds with the rest of the verse "not of works".
The strongs has "believed" as "pistis" which is interchangeable with "have faith in" "to entrust". But Thomas' doubt demonstrates the nuances of faith and doubt belief and disbelief. So it might help somewhat if we can distinguish whether Thomas was totally lost before he saw Jesus hands, or just lacked a more complete understanding.
The only thing to consider really in my mind is how faith in Jesus means someone is relying on their own faith to save them. To me it's obvious: If someone has faith in Jesus they're relying on Jesus, not their own faith. What you're suggesting seems forced and artificial; frankly, it's a bit weird.
It is true that Thomas did not believe the apostle's accounts of having seen Jesus post resurrection,
and he claimed he would not believe until he saw Jesus for himself, and put his hands in Jesus wounds.
Yes, that is what he said, but, there is no actual record of Thomas putting his hands in Jesus' wounds,
even though Jesus invited him to do so. Jesus said to Thomas, because you have seen me, you believe.
Perhaps all it took to convince Thomas was seeing our Lord. .
and he claimed he would not believe until he saw Jesus for himself, and put his hands in Jesus wounds.
Yes, that is what he said, but, there is no actual record of Thomas putting his hands in Jesus' wounds,
even though Jesus invited him to do so. Jesus said to Thomas, because you have seen me, you believe.
Perhaps all it took to convince Thomas was seeing our Lord. .
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How interesting to the point of being amusing to see how you change words to suit your
theology right after quibbling about/decrying the difference between "in" and "of." .
theology right after quibbling about/decrying the difference between "in" and "of." .
My intention was, to point out that there is no difference in understanding and believing, as mem has stated. This view would also enable the natural man in 1 Cor 2:14, to believe in the things of the Spirit, if it were true that there is a difference in believing and understanding.(discerning).
It is not myself that is changing the wording. Believing and understanding mean the same thing.
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/galatians/2-16.htm
The Greek seems ambiguous regarding if it is "in" or "of" in my lay opinion, but assuming the KJV is correct,
then Paul still seems to be saying that no one will be justified by (in bold)
Galatians 2
15We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile “sinners” 16know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Which these are not, for example
Luke 10
8If you enter a town and they welcome you, eat whatever is set before you.
Matthew 5
38You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;
Galatians 5
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
John 8
4and said, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. So what do You say?”
6They said this to test Him, in order to have a basis for accusing Him. But Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with His finger.
7When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.
9When they heard this,b they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there. 10Then Jesus straightened upc and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers?d Has no one condemned you?”
11“No one, Lord,” she answered.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”
The Greek seems ambiguous regarding if it is "in" or "of" in my lay opinion, but assuming the KJV is correct,
then Paul still seems to be saying that no one will be justified by (in bold)
Galatians 2
15We who are Jews by birth and not Gentile “sinners” 16know that a man is not justified by works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.
Which these are not, for example
Luke 10
8If you enter a town and they welcome you, eat whatever is set before you.
Matthew 5
38You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’ 39But I tell you not to resist an evil person. If someone slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also;
Galatians 5
2Take notice: I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
John 8
4and said, “Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such a woman. So what do You say?”
6They said this to test Him, in order to have a basis for accusing Him. But Jesus bent down and began to write on the ground with His finger.
7When they continued to question Him, He straightened up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her.” 8And again He bent down and wrote on the ground.
9When they heard this,b they began to go away one by one, beginning with the older ones, until only Jesus was left, with the woman standing there. 10Then Jesus straightened upc and asked her, “Woman, where are your accusers?d Has no one condemned you?”
11“No one, Lord,” she answered.
“Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Now go and sin no more.”
Well, since I respect my elders, let's see if a youngster [70] is able to
help with: The Salvation of no works + the deliverance of works + Final
salvation/deliverance with The Gospel Of The Grace Of God:
(Note: RDF = Rightly Divided From)
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should
not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who
Delivered us from So Great A Death,..."
(RDF)
"...and Doth Deliver:..."
(RDF)
"...in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us;"
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)
----------------------------
E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D version:
Precious friend(s), Is not the Solution to Confusion recog-
nizing These Three, And Also, God's Differences Between
"His Relationship With us," And (RDF) "our fellowship with Him!"?
► "Grace Through faith" ( 100% trust/belief with the heart! ) ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God Delivered us from So Great A Death...":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With
those [ sinners ] who humbly repent and:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD Jesus Christ,
HIS Death ( Precious BLOOD ), Burial, And HIS Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5)
"Grace Through faith" In The Merits
Of HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:
All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23; Romans 5:1)
This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24)
( More Biblical Confirmation is here: God's ETERNAL Assurance!
And here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In Christ! )
► faith ◄
God's Eternal Justification/Relationship Is First, And, Then:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
►► love ◄◄
(2) Present Tense = "...God Doth Deliver us...":
All believers Should do "good works" { Which will Never Equal
Christ's Payment For the above Penalty of sin! }, for Which we Are
Created In Christ Jesus, to perform for Him, having "been Called
into fellowship With Him!" (Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9)
Amen?:
We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This Should Be a
lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing, being "not conformed to
this world" (Romans 12:1-2), for Grace Deliverance From the power of sin!
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:
(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:
(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:
Eternal Results: reward [ good works Required! ] * or loss [ bad works! ]
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15), ruling and reigning [ or not * ] With Christ, Which
Will Finally Be At The Judgment Day!
* More study: Finishing The Race
►► love ◄◄:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
►►► Blessed Hope! ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":
Christ's Glorification of All "members" Of His Body!!
{ This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin! }
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c). Hallelujah! Praise His Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between the Three tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And (RDF) our fellowship! Correct?
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD Jesus Christ, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)...
help with: The Salvation of no works + the deliverance of works + Final
salvation/deliverance with The Gospel Of The Grace Of God:
(Note: RDF = Rightly Divided From)
The Three Tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation:
"But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should
not trust in ourselves, but in God Which raiseth the dead: Who
Delivered us from So Great A Death,..."
(RDF)
"...and Doth Deliver:..."
(RDF)
"...in Whom we trust that He Will Yet Deliver us;"
(2 Corinthians 1:9-10)
----------------------------
E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D version:
Precious friend(s), Is not the Solution to Confusion recog-
nizing These Three, And Also, God's Differences Between
"His Relationship With us," And (RDF) "our fellowship with Him!"?
God's Will, Today, Under His Pure Grace? Very Simply:
► "Grace Through faith" ( 100% trust/belief with the heart! ) ◄
1) Past Tense = "...God Delivered us from So Great A Death...":
God Establishes HIS Eternal Relationship With
those [ sinners ] who humbly repent and:
believe, 100% trust, place Total faith, In The LORD Jesus Christ,
HIS Death ( Precious BLOOD ), Burial, And HIS Resurrection,
According To The Scriptures!
(1 Corinthians 15:3-4; cp Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 3-5)
"Grace Through faith" In The Merits
Of HIS ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Results:
All sins Forgiven, His Eternal Life, And, Peace With God!
(Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 2:13; Romans 6:23; Romans 5:1)
This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Penalty of sin,
The So Great A [Second ] Death! (Revelation 21:8) =
Justification and Spiritual Sanctification
(2 Corinthians 1:10a cp Romans 3:24)
( More Biblical Confirmation is here: God's ETERNAL Assurance!
And here:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In Christ! )
► faith ◄
God's Eternal Justification/Relationship Is First, And, Then:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
►► love ◄◄
(2) Present Tense = "...God Doth Deliver us...":
All believers Should do "good works" { Which will Never Equal
Christ's Payment For the above Penalty of sin! }, for Which we Are
Created In Christ Jesus, to perform for Him, having "been Called
into fellowship With Him!" (Ephesians 2:10; 1 Corinthians 1:9)
Amen?:
We "work out our own salvation" (Philippians 2:12). This Should Be a
lifetime of Daily submission, and renewing, being "not conformed to
this world" (Romans 12:1-2), for Grace Deliverance From the power of sin!
(2 Corinthians 1:10b) = personal sanctification:
(2a) Christ Living In us, To Fulfil:
All Of His Law, In "One Word: Love thy neighbor as thyself!"
(2b) His Spirit Guiding and Teaching us, How To:
"Study to show thyself Approved Unto God, a work-man
that needeth not to be ashamed, Rightly
Dividing The Word Of Truth!" (2 Timothy 2:15)
Eternal Results: reward [ good works Required! ] * or loss [ bad works! ]
(1 Corinthians 3:8-15), ruling and reigning [ or not * ] With Christ, Which
Will Finally Be At The Judgment Day!
* More study: Finishing The Race
►► love ◄◄:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ” (online)
►►► Blessed Hope! ◄◄◄
(3) Future Tense = "...God Will Yet Deliver us":
Christ's Glorification of All "members" Of His Body!!
{ This Is Eternal Deliverance From the Presence of sin! }
(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; 1 Corinthians 15:51-57;
2 Corinthians 1:10c). Hallelujah! Praise His Excellent Name!!
----------------------------------
Conclusion:
BIG Differences Between the Three tenses Of God's Eternal Salvation,
And Between God's Relationship And (RDF) our fellowship! Correct?
Please Be Very Richly Encouraged And Edified In
The LORD Jesus Christ, And His Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided (+ I and II)...
amen word games
“Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.”
1 Peter 1:6-12
“Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: that the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.”
1 Peter 1:6-12
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