What does that simple question reveal?

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SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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Jul 4, 2021
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#101
hornetguy said:
I have heard that explanation, and it could possibly mean exactly that.... except when a baby is born, it is not normally said that the baby was "born of water"..... they were simply "born".
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Supposedly, there is a writing in the Talmud where a rabbi wrote that an embryo is "mere water"; I don't agree with that- but it demonstrates that water was associated with birth in rabbinical thinking.
 
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DJT_47

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Cameron143 said:
You obviously didn't read the verses. We are born again by the word of God. There is no faith apart from the word of God because that's what produces faith. And there is no salvation without faith.
I love baptism and believe water baptism is being spoken of in Acts 2:38. But the only baptism that can place us into Christ is spiritual. Water baptism is a great way to publicly show this. It's also a good way to get wet.
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I did read and am very familiar with the verses. Yes, born by the word of God but that doesn't equate to water. The word is the gospel. The gospel doesn't equate to water. The Ethiopian eunuch was preached the word of God, the gospel, the good news of Christ. He wasn't preached water. He heard the word, believed and confessed his belief in the Lord, and was baptized. Read the account in Acts 8
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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#105
Jan 18, 2016
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Cameron143 said:
But the only baptism that can place us into Christ is spiritual.
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I agree completely with this.
And the way we are baptized into the Spirit is to be baptized in water, in the name of Jesus.... we are being baptized into Jesus/Spirit/God.....
 
CS1

CS1

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#106
May 23, 2012
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#106
hornetguy said:
I have heard that explanation, and it could possibly mean exactly that.... except when a baby is born, it is not normally said that the baby was "born of water"..... they were simply "born".

Jesus could have been hinting at the water breaking during a human birth, but he also could have been using that hint to say "not only do you get baptized in water, you also will be baptized in the Spirit...... because remember, again, anytime anyone during that time said "baptism", it always meant immersion in water. (unless they were discussing making pickles...:rolleyes:)

It would be similar to the comparing of water immersion baptism to the "saving" of Noah and his family..... "baptism, which corresponds to this (Noah being saved from destruction by water) now saves us.... " Noah's family was saved from degenerate earth by the cleansing power of the water....
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Yes, but there are Jewish traditions of the Pharisees about water and birth. Jesus was speaking to one. Living water was the purest form of water for one to wash themselves. Born of water, Jesus said, and of the Spirit.

Born of water can be referred to as purification= sanctification, But one must be born of the Spirit also.

If Jesus was telling Nicodemus you must be baptized in water why did he not say that? I'm sure a Pharisee would know about baptism.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#107
DJT_47 said:
I did read and am very familiar with the verses. Yes, born by the word of God but that doesn't equate to water. The word is the gospel. The gospel doesn't equate to water. The Ethiopian eunuch was preached the word of God, the gospel, the good news of Christ. He wasn't preached water. He heard the word, believed and confessed his belief in the Lord, and was baptized. Read the account in Acts 8
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I acknowledge the importance of baptism, just not its necessity to salvation. In the story you shared, the eunuch believed and then was baptized. But notice when he asked Philip if he could be baptized. Philip confirmed with him that he believed. Having believed made him a candidate for baptism. The same was true of those in Acts 2. .they heard...and were pricked in the heart...and asked what to do. That's the evidence of their faith and so they became candidates for baptism.
True salvation always begins with faith. Once faith is present, works that evidence faith always follow.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#108
hornetguy said:
I agree completely with this.
And the way we are baptized into the Spirit is to be baptized in water, in the name of Jesus.... we are being baptized into Jesus/Spirit/God.....
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We disagree here. I believe faith is the evidence that the spiritual baptism has taken place and water baptism is the appropriate action to publicly witness symbolically what God has wrought inwardly.
 
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DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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#109
Cameron143 said:
I acknowledge the importance of baptism, just not its necessity to salvation. In the story you shared, the eunuch believed and then was baptized. But notice when he asked Philip if he could be baptized. Philip confirmed with him that he believed. Having believed made him a candidate for baptism. The same was true of those in Acts 2. .they heard...and were pricked in the heart...and asked what to do. That's the evidence of their faith and so they became candidates for baptism.
True salvation always begins with faith. Once faith is present, works that evidence faith always follow.
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I think I'll stick with what Peter said as opposed to what you said

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#110
DJT_47 said:
I think I'll stick with what Peter said as opposed to what you said

1 Peter 3:21

21The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
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I don't think you understand that verse either but thanks for sharing.
 
D

DJT_47

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#111
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#111
Cameron143 said:
I don't think you understand that verse either but thanks for sharing.
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I could care less what you think. I'll stick to the clear words of the bible, which are without a doubt understandable, and let them speak for themselves.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#112
DJT_47 said:
I could care less what you think. I'll stick to the clear words of the bible, which are without a doubt understandable, and let them speak for themselves.
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That's awesome. Jesus calls his people sheep. I'm sure that now as I have shared the plain reading of scripture you will take up a grass diet and line up for steering when you get too woolley.
 
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DJT_47

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#113
Cameron143 said:
That's awesome. Jesus calls his people sheep. I'm sure that now as I have shared the plain reading of scripture you will take up a grass diet and line up for steering when you get too woolley.
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Spend more time studying to try to understand the truth. I'm done with you. Goodbye 👋
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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#114
DJT_47 said:
Spend more time studying to try to understand the truth. I'm done with you. Goodbye 👋
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Lighten up and you'll enjoy life more. People get frustrated when others disagree. They have forgotten that it's God who is responsible for the increase. We are only tasked to plant and water. If you have done that, you have been faithful.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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#115
Cameron143 said:
Being born of water and Spirit?

The Spirit is simple.

Water refers to the gospel. See 1 Peter 1:23 and Romans 10:17.
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In John 3:5, Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" and NOT born of baptism and the Spirit. Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The experience here parallels Jesus' words to Nicodemus. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.
 
hornetguy

hornetguy

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Jan 18, 2016
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Cameron143 said:
That's awesome. Jesus calls his people sheep. I'm sure that now as I have shared the plain reading of scripture you will take up a grass diet and line up for steering when you get too woolley.
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Reminds me of this scene in Bull Durham.....
 
G

Gideon300

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Mar 18, 2021
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#119
Wansvic said:
Have you received the Holy Ghost/Spirit SINCE you believed?
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I received the Holy Spirit the moment I was born again. He indwells the born again spirit of every believer. I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit about 3 years later. There are reasons for the delay, including a lack of understanding on my part and some unfortunate experiences with a few pentecostals. Some receive the Holy Spirit indwelling and the baptism in the Holy Spirit at the same time. That is God's business, not mine.
 
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Gideon300

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#120
Mar 18, 2021
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#120
Wansvic said:
"But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, IF SO be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." Rom 8:9
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There is a difference between having the Spirit and being filled with the Spirit. The instruction "be filled with the Spirit" (Ephesians 5:18) is more precisely rendered "be being filled". In other words, the Christian should be continually filled - but may not be. It is possible to grieve or quench the Holy Spirit. When that happens, the believer loses the fullness of the Holy Spirit active in his life. That does not mean the loss of salvation; it does mean the believer ceases to express the fruit of the Spirit and becomes ineffective in God's kingdom.
 
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