How can one learn?

Mat 7:21¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
I know, being as I did ask when, who, and how, I just thought maybe spell check turned evil. It does that at times.
As you. Wish.

There's no need to confuse the temple in Heaven with the temple that will be on earth. Each has its place in God's plans. And according to Revelation 21, there will be no temple in Heaven at some point in the future. But there will be one in Jerusalem.

Got me confused here.. I have never talked about a temple in heaven..


Do you have any scripture saying Jesus stepped into a temple in heaven?


Again do you have scripture showing this happening?


Discrediting? I offered my POV because that is my POV.. I did not share it to try and discredit Lafftur.. I offered it to give people an alternate View of the scriptures..


Nope... Jesus is NOT the capstone.. He is the cornerstone..


(Isaiah 28:16-17) "¶ Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. {17} Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place."

But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that have come, He went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made by hands and is not a part of this creation. Hebrews 9:12
Then another angel came out of the temple, crying out in a loud voice to the One seated on the cloud, “Swing Your sickle and reap, because the time has come to harvest; for the crop of the earth is ripe.” Rev 14:16
See it as you will but no one can argue that He is the first as much as and the last.

For any that have followed this thread to this point, I thank you. There have been a lot of things that are nothing than what people may think. Even my own words come from a place of hope, and love. Though it seem that I am more than a bit abrasive, that is just me.
In my last off script post, I spoke of Mat. 5:17-18. So now it is time to look at sacrifices. As it has became clear that some wishing to speak of them, hold little if any true understanding of what, why, and where they really stand in Torah. So we are going to look at them now. It is our hope that in doing so, we can gain the understanding of how they work, why they don't work, and most of all, why they have no hold on man kind, or ever did.
Yes I know that's saying a lot. Yet can that be backed by the Word? Yes it can. This will take more than one post, so please hang in there. As I am sure there will someone that wants to debunk the things said here. However, as scripture is the foundation of this, keep in mind that to place any scripture in conflict with another puts one on shaky ground. That said lets get going.
I do hope you will take the time really read the passages I give here. If you look and think, "I don't need to read that I know it all." you do your self a gave injustice. Just as if you read it seeking what you think you know, you will find it at any cost. Sadly many times this means over looking a part, or at times a full chapter to get there.
Now as we look at Ex. chapter 29, it has been said that HaShem is giving a commandment to Israel, Yet is He truly doing this? In some respects it easy to say YEP sure was. That is until we are faced with the fact that HaShem also said in Jer. 7:22 that he never commanded sacrifice. So what gives here? Is it a part of the Law or not? To answer this let's go back in time just a bit.
When Israel got to Sinai, and HaShem spook to them, they were scared out they minds. However this isn't what we need to look at.

Exo 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Please note that HaShem IF your going to do this, this is how it should be done. There is never a commandment given by Him to give them, just instructions as to how they should be done. Oddly even the Temple isn't commanded, rather HaShem gave instructions on how, not telling them to build the thing. We can see that when David said, Hay let me build you a house to live in. Not exact wording though the same intent is implied so no need to make a big thing of it. HaShem made it clear He didn't need one. Please see 2Sam. chapter 7. It is here we find that this was David's idea and not HaShem's. So if it was not HaShem, then there was no commandment to do so. Rather it was more like we do with our kids. They come and say, Hay dad I want to build this for you. We say ok if you need any help let me know.

Now there is one thing that was commanded by HaShem, that being,

Deu 12:14 But in the place which the LORD shall choose in one of thy tribes, there thou shalt offer thy burnt offerings, and there thou shalt do all that I command thee.

Yes I know it does seem as though we have found a contradiction in the Word. However you recall, HaShem did say IF you are going to do this, this is how I want it done. So you see, HaShem never commanded sacrifices, He simply said ok, if thats what you want.
So what was it that was commanded?
Oddly it was the 10 commandments we find in Ex. 20 and Deut 5. The laws that were written by HaShem's own hand. There are others that we will cover later, for now lets look at what haShem said, and who it is He gives the credit for the sacrifices.

Exo 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.

Did you notic that HaShem your burnt offerings, and not My burnt offerings? As we know when it is HaShem's plan He claims it as His. As He does with the feast.

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Let's stop here, and let other gie their understanding of this. Although it is our hope that with this little tid bit, It is clear that we are working with in all scripture given to show an understanding that most never see. All scripture here can be seen as a contradiction, yet when looked at for they really say, becomes clear they are not.
Oh you will just need to take this on faith that we will tie this to Mat.5:17-18 in time.

in Jeremiah..

He does not say He never commanded burnt offerings or sacrifices for sin.

He says in the day He brought them out of Egypt, He did not - but said to them, obey.
Sinai isn't even the day He brought them out of Egypt - He did not give them the law until after He tested them with manna and a the first commanded sabbath, and proved they were disobedient. therefore as the scripture in Galatians says, the Law was added because of sin, until the Son should come - the True Manna.

You imply that sin offerings are human originated additions to the Law, but if you read Exodus 29, God Himself commands sin offerings of blood for the consecration of the priests of Levi.
and Whose commandment is Exodus 30:10?
that the high priest must make a blood offering for sin every year?
Who commanded a brazen altar be built for the tabernacle?

these things were commanded by God before Moses came down the mountain with the first set of tablets. so i ask you again, did God not make this Law knowing that it would be broken?

why did God make a Law, writing it with His own finger, knowing those tablets would that very day be broken? why command a yearly atonement for sin with the blood of bulls and goats?

the Law is not given for righteousness, but for sin.
through it sin becomes all the more sinful, by transgression.
those who are righteous do not need the Law - what the Law says, it says to those under it, and by it no one is justified. what is in the Law condemns all who are under the Law.

“In the visions of God brought he me into the land of Israel, and set me upon a very high mountain, by which was as the frame of a city on the south. And he brought me thither, and, behold, there was a man, whose appearance was like the appearance of brass, with a line of flax in his hand, and a measuring reed; and he stood in the gate.

And the man said unto me, Son of man, behold with thine eyes, and hear with thine ears, and set thine heart upon all that I shall shew thee; for to the intent that I might shew them unto thee art thou brought hither: declare all that thou seest to the house of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭40:2-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; and had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass. And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭21:10-12, 14-15, 18, 21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the LORD Himself as part of the covenant of Law commanded the sacrifice of 16 lambs per week, saying "My" - two per day, in the morning and evening, and two per morning, two per evening on the weekly sabbath.

Good scriptures about the temple.. Thank you..

But i will still stick with my Cornerstone belief..

So your saying scripture has it wrong?

So you readed about the feast, did you learn from it?

No.

that you misinterpreted Jeremiah 7.

As you wish

given up on learning, huh

Now we have seen that HaShem told us He didn't command Israel to give offerings. Now it may seem to some that this can be misunderstood. Yet it is clear, and concise. So lets move on.
As any that has followed this knows, I have left hints that the Law was in place before Sinai. I do stand by that, and we will look at that in time, so please hold your disagreement until then. You see I know this idea is not something many will agree with, and even the Hebrew people don't for the most part. So lets drop that, however I did wish to bring that to everyone's attention.
As we all know or should know Sacrifice has been around from the exposition from the garden. HaShem has been said to have made it a requirement when He sacrificed an animal, and covered Adam and Eve with it's skin. Gen 3:21 One really good semester if you ask me. Any who, (some is going to say I don't use proper American) I do see, and do follow the teaching, that this was most likely the first ever Day of Atonement. It is also clear that we have way to say that HaShem commanded this be done after this day. We also don't know that He didn't, so you make up your own mind on that. All we do know is that the Word doesn't record one way or the other.
From that point on, we find many sacrifices being made, by many people. Most of them can be seen as a thanksgiving offering. History has shown that once a people start doing something, they tend to keep doing it. It is on us to decide what we think when the Word is silent on a topic. This is done by seeking everything said on the topic, and using ones common sense. It also helps to talk with others, and seek the truth. After all we are all looking for truth, and any that say I have it all warped up for you, is one that we should always take with a pound of salt. Why? They are human, and that makes us all pron to mistakes.
Now lets take a look at the feast. Don't worry, I am still on the same topic.
In Leviticus 23 we find the feast. How they should be observed, and when. They are His feast, and in time we will see them once more observed by all nations, or any nation that doesn't go to Jerusalem to observe the feast of Tabernacles will get no rain for a year. Trust me, living in the desert I know that would not fun. For info on that please see, Zac. 14: 16-19. For the nitpickers, no it doesn't say no for a year, it is however implied.
Now I know that some will wish to say, "See told you" As we know the first ever Passover was held in Egypt. Ex. 12:14. We can also see clearly that is was not a commandment, rather it was given as an Ordnance. Though it is true that an ordnance can be seen as law, that isn't a commandment. The one thing we must make clear here is that with the feast, we can look at them as prophecy. They are after a shadow of things to come.
As we move foreword in time, we come to the feast. In Num.28 we find a commandment to keep the feast in their time. Yes I know that passage doesn't say feast, however the chapter is about the feast. We should take care to keep that in mind. Now in the feast we do find some sacrifices being commanded. So why do we now have them, when up to this point there has been no commandment to do so? The feast all point to some event in the future. It is when they are all fulfilled that we as humans will find the truth in all it's glory. You see at that point we will be with our King, and He will advise us on His Word. Or as I like to think, He will place His truth in us. Then poof, our eyes will be opened and we will see it as it should be. Until then, all we have is our understanding, and no matter what, we know deep down we don't really know for a fact that we are 100% right.
In the feast we have some sacrifices that are given as a commandment. However we must make note here that at Sinai it was ordained, not commanded. Num.28:6. I think we can all see the difference there. Though I am almost 100% sure at lest one person will want to argue it.
So let us look at the feast first, then I will give the understanding I will stand by. That is until someone steeps up and with wisdom, and understanding can show I am wrong.
Passover.
As we all know, or should, Passover is clear pic of Yeshua's sacrifice for us. I don't think that will be contended, although I can be wrong. With Passover comes 7 days of unleavened bread. It is the understanding of our class that this holds to the time when we as His followers will be persecuted, and even find our selves wondering in the wilderness. Please see, Mat. 24:15-22 I think it is. As you read this keep in mind how the first Passover was to be kept. In both we find that we should be ready to leave right now, don't look back, don't wait, just go. Also as with Passover, the Blood of the Lamb is our protection.
Next we come to First fruits.Lev. 23:10
Although some are willing to jump up and say, "YOUR WRONG" it may be in your mind, not in mine, and you will see why just keep reading. This is without much debate a feast that points to Yeshua being risen from the grave. Yes I know Tomb, same so oh same oh.
It is with this in mind that MANY follow First fruits is held on the 18th of Abib, known today as Nissan. By seeing it in this manner we place Yeshua's resurrection on the 3rd day after His crucifixion. What we see is that HaShem offered for us the best He had to give. Not only following His Own laws, we also see that He embraced them.
Next we come to, what is called the feast of weeks. Altough today it is called Pentecost by most. Looking back we can clearly see, this pointed to the day of Pentecost as we see it in Acts. 2:1. Most see the poring out of the Spirit as it's purpose. You will get no argument from much of anyone on that.
Then comes my personal second favorite. Trumpets. Lev.23:24
So how is Trumpets prophetic? As we know, or should, Yeshua will return to rule over the earth for 1000 years with the sounding of the last of 7 trumpets. Rev.11:15 That's a day I hope to be in Jerusalem. Will it be on the same day as the feast? I really don't know, if any of you can show it from Scripture, please let us know. I am willing to say I think it might be that day.
As we come a day that a lot of people will find horrific, The day of Atonement. I can't speak for anyone other than my self here. I know that we are al sinners, and as I have said many times, any one that say's their not isn't be honest with them self. As we know, every one will stand before HaShem to be judged. Rev. 20:12. It is the pray of us that all man kind be found in the Book of life, yet we know that simply isn't going to happen. As Yeshua told us, many will be turned away. Luke 13:25-27. Sadly as is made clear, they will think they served Him, yet He doesn't know them.
It is for this reason that we must work to find the truth of HaShem, and walk in it.
Now we come to my favorite of them all. Booths. Lev. 23:34
Though some may not think about it, this should be seen as a shadow of the day we enter Heaven to dwell with HaShem.
Understanding this, it becomes clear that the sacrifices also fit with prophecy.
Let the condemnation begin.

I simply see nothing to be learned from some one that says one thing, then another. So let be as you wish, just not for me.

that is because you would rather ignore the scripture than humble yourself.

Jeremiah 7 does not "never"
it says in the day He brought them out of Egypt.
the day He brought them. out of Egypt was before the giving of the Law.
the giving of the Law was after He had proved they would not obey Him by giving them a sabbath and manna in Exodus 16.
so the Law was given to a disobedient and rebellious people. not to a righteous people.

in Numbers 28 the LORD calls the sacrifices "MINE"

so both of the basis for your arguments that the sacrifices in the Law are human traditions rather than commandments from God are contradictory to scripture.

so i dismiss them on the basis of what the word of God says.

No,

we saw that God did not command sacrifices in the day He brought the people out Egypt.
in that day, He only told them to believe and obey Him.

then He tested them in Exodus 16.
He gave them manna and commanded them not to gather it on the 7th day, but to trust Him.
they proved they would not believe Him. or obey Him.

so He gave an unbelieving, disobedient people a Law.
within that Law He commanded sacrifices for sin, because it is a law for a sinful people.