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There is an issue in reasoning from scripture continuationism or cessationism and relying on 1 co 13 as the main proof text. I have fallen into doing that... when it is various other passages that work together with 1 Co 13 that show the cessation of sign gifts. So when looking at 1 Co 13...

Plus... there is a whole line of persecuted Christians separate and in hiding.. that didn't get their leaders in the limelight as 'church fathers' they kept saying pure faith .. didn't give in to infant baptism or working for salvation.. or idolising saints.. and the majority of these who...

Depends on what the 'church fathers' believed. Infant baptism Elevation of saints and Mary to worship them Having a priest over multiple congregations Having rituals and works to earn salvation Idolisings saints. All unbiblical, happening early on in the churches. So.. some of the...

weeeeeeell you also have evangelical christians that are are partial or full cessationists. So what your statement of faith is isn't exclusive to all evangelicals. But aside from that... I would agree with mostly everything else.

Classic thing here... Initial salvation verses are being mixed with verses about the response to having already been given eternal life. Don't mix em up ! :)

The whole word.. the KJV has looking into a mirror dimly then face to face.. Partial reflection to whole. Scripture in process.. not a full reflection ... early churches not fully developed.. in process.. become established.. apostles ministry.. in process not fully done.. become completed...

It still comes down to what will cause them to cease. Any part of scripture is dependent on whether there is anything that indicates the following of that would be superceded by something else. So..... I can follow commands to discipleship.. church fellowship.. 10 commandments .. empowering...

We are talking the sign gifts here. That isn't all God uses... you know that I'm sure. So, today I would be applying scripture to my life and God speaks to me thru that. That is how we all do it as Christians. That's how you would do it. Anyway.. this forum is too limiting... we miss the...

Yeah.. they were close associates to the apostles who were given special roles... The exception rather than the rule. And yea Paul did know the second coming.. but I mean he didn't directly mention it in 1 co 13. The Bible is called a mirror in other scripture and could easily be the 'face...

It's true Paul didn't know it would be a complete collection.. but he did know the Revelation of God through tongues, prophecy and knowledge was in part and would be completed by 'the perfect' or 'that which is perfect' Paul did know about the second coming of Christ and didn't mention it that...

Yes it is. I agree :)

Perfect in the sense of completion... maturity... lacking nothing.

But Jesus did inspire Paul, who wrote about the purpose of tongues, and the credentials of an apostle and when the sign gifts would cease. The inspiration Paul got was from Jesus. And yes He is fully God.. I agree. When we look at Jesus' words.. they aren't just what He said in person to...

Whatever man.. if God can only use the gift of miracles to work a miracle... then that's really limiting God. Forget about it uh

God hasn't given away his power! No cessationist says that. The gift of miracles put away... not Gods power independently to heal and do miracles. So miracles can and still do happen.. any cessationist would agree with that. Just for very particular purposes and times. Also ...the sign...

Yea i realized after I posted.. washing doesn't fit well with immersion.. my bad. Congregation or assembly instead of 'church' though is better

The way to reason from scripture that the gift of tongues has been put away and fulfilled its purpose is by looking at its purpose and the foundation that was laid by the apostles. Foundation established.. no need for the tools used to make it. 1 Co 13 isn't the primary passage to use for...

By the way .. washing for baptism and congregation for church are better translations. The word church has many meanings in English.. that goes beyond what the Bible supports. Congregation fits better with the Greek. Same for 'washing'... that had more relation to immersion than baptism...

Remember the verse 'Jesus is the same yesterday, today and forever ' has context around it that isn't about sign gifts but the surety of His promises and 2nd coming. Gotta keep a brick in its wall or the whole wall could collapse. Gotta keep a verse in its surrounds or the whole passage...

Thanks for your reply, sir. It is a very common response to point to Paul's admonishing to desire the 'higher ' or 'best gifts' especially that they may prophecy '... The thing with this and any passage is it is aimed at whoever is being written to, as you would know. So it is meant for the...