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  1. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Sometimes I wonder if people simply repeat Bible verses but never envision the practical outworking of what they say and think it through to it's logical end. :unsure:
  2. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Huh? Who gets deceived when Satan is loosed if there is no-one on earth? You think God let's him back into heaven to do his dirty work after already having had him thrown down to earth? I may not be able to produce a specific verse but common sense based on what scripture says prevails when...
  3. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I believe the Millennium is to what he is referring however do you understand Isaiah 65 as a reference to the eternal state or the Millennium?
  4. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    To say the "Tribulation believers are those that underwent the Great Tribulation" is rather circular and doesn't tell me who you think they are. Are they the Church, those in Christ? Are they Jewish believers only? Are they a mix of Jewish believers and Gentile believers who live in and worship...
  5. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    Huh? That is what I said. The other poster was trying to argue that freedom is to have no restraints. I said that is chaos. Freedom can only exist within boundaries. To be a slave to our sin nature is to be free to destruction and death. To be a slave to Christ is to be free to righteousness...
  6. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    When is the Church raised and removed to heaven? If the tribulations believers are raised post tribulation, who are they reigning over with Christ? There is no-one left to populate the earth for the Millennium. Who are the Tribulation believers? Are they "in Christ" and therefore part of the...
  7. sawdust

    Gods will vs mans free will

    Yes because freedom doesn't mean to be without restraint, that would be chaos. Freedom can only exist within authority, including God's freedom. He is His own authority as He is our authority and indeed the authority in all creation.
  8. sawdust

    One will be taken, one left

    Yes the Rapture will be like that but what the particular passage the OP asked about is not concerning the Rapture but the Second Coming and is removing the unbelievers from the earth, not believers which, is what the Rapture will remove, that is, believers in Christ. It pays not to mix the two...
  9. sawdust

    One will be taken, one left

    No, the imagery is using Noah's flood and those who were "taken" in the flood were not the righteous.
  10. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Who belongs to the First Resurrection? There's only two, one to life and one to condemnation. John 5:29 and come forth— those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. If the resurrection of the Church doesn't occur...
  11. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    He confessed Jesus as Messiah, the One sent by God to save. It is upon that confession the Church is built.
  12. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    i didn't say it was built on him, I said it was built on his example of faith.
  13. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    If the saved are off to their mansions in heaven and the unsaved are destroyed, who is left on earth to go enjoy the Millennium?
  14. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I'll be the first to admit that I have seen a problem with the question of the Bride for sometime now but it is something I have had in the back of my mind because I keep finding questions I cannot answer. You say the original 12 were not given over to the Church but the Church didn't exist at...
  15. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    You don't seem to read very well. I had never heard of Darby or Plymouth Brethen or Dispensationalism. I read scripture and saw God deal with people differently at different times ergo I was a Dispensationalist before I even knew of such a thing.
  16. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I was responding to your assertion that the understanding of the resurrection of the Church occurring prior to the Great Tribulation was from a particular school of thought. I came to that conclusion based on what I read in scripture, not from any scholarly school of thought. I was a...
  17. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Yes they were but were they given to Israel or the Church? I repeat though, I don't hold to replacement theology. Sometimes working out the precise understanding of what the word means takes a lot of questioning and thinking and more questions and more thinking and then even more thinking. ;) :)
  18. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    That is how I basically came at it. I found out I was a dispensationalist before I even knew what that was. To me it is clear God has dealt differently with different people at different times. In some ways, it is no different to how I raised my children. Different ages required different...
  19. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    I'm not sure if "help" is the right word as it does raise some degree of anomaly if only on the surface. ;) It fails to address the issue of the Apostles being the foundation of the Bride or any of the NT scriptures that speak of the Church as if she is Christ's wife. I will continue to look...
  20. sawdust

    Question for those who believe in a Pre-Tribulation Rapture

    Actually, in my case, it came as I read the scriptures. I had never heard of dispensationalism or futurism or any other "ism' you care to mention. When I became a Christian, it was like having to learn a new language, for not being raised in a Christian home, most doctrinal titles were foreign...