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Oh m ahhh oh my gosh too funny oh hahaha!

Well, no actually. One man keeps saying some other men don't believe hell exists, but it's not true. They do believe hell exists. But he thinks that since they believe men only gain immortality in the new birth, and that therefore they will be annihilated in the lake of fire, that they...

Okay, I'll go another round. :) New Living Translation "For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. So then, in your view, the perish here has only to do with the body. And the eternal life has...

I actually think whatev, the new guy, has said something wise for us. When dealing with a topic like this, it's best to say what you think, give the verses have led you to what you think, and try to stay away from thinking any of us has it all completely right.

Everyone jump on, the train's going around again! :LOL:

I will try to unconfused you but not sure it will work. :p The core of the debate centers on whether or not men are born immortal. Because in order to be eternally tormented, a man would have to BE eternal.

Well, that's rare in here to see a man say, oops, I made a mistake, I'm sorry. :D

Oh yeah, I saw the next post where you gave the three separate links to the relevant posts. He could have just mistakenly thought gb9's post was you. Gb9's the one who accused someone of not believing in the trinity.

Dude...are you serious...?? :LOL: Do you WANT for no one in here to take you seriously? Gosh sakes.

It appears it was gb9 who said you deny the trinity and not CS1. At least that's the post your link leads us to...

CS1 said: Should we do it...?? :LOL:

Actually...he doesn't believe a mortal sinner is given the gift of eternal life...he believes the sinner is born eternally alive already...but then there's being born again and receiving Gods' Spirit, but Gods' Spirit does not give a man immortality because he already had immortality before he...

I was under the impression that you thought men were already born immortal BEFORE receiving the eternal Spirit of God.

I agree. The thing I see and want others to see if possible, is that some verses are describing dead men as they were before Jesus' resurrection (sleeping), some verses describe dead men after Jesus' resurrection (aware, conscious), some verses describe dead men in hell before hell is thrown in...

That is the millennium, the last 1,000 years. Humans being thrown in the lake of fire comes after that. So can we assume that this will be an accurate description of a human AFTER being thrown in the lake of fire?

Yes, and John heard them crying to God: how long? So they were conscious. Sleeping men don't speak and ask questions. So I will concede (not agree, but concede) that the part of the story of the rich man and Lazarus that speaks of them being conscious could be just a trashable part of the story...

I agree it is possible for a translation to be wrong. I think it's far better to instead look up what the original greek word means. But even this is not sufficient really, because I have still only given the root in greek. It would be helpful to have angela here to give us the nuances in greek...

I was printing the strongs and the greek lexicon to show what the meaning of the word translated as "perish" in english means.

I was not trying to insult you. I was trying to say that you have to go to the origination of a mans objection and that even if you don't, and you and he don't discuss the core objection, it will be lurking beneath everything the man says, and that if you can't see what his main objection really...

Did I already ask you how you make this jibe with the consciously aware men under the altar in heaven in the book of Revelation? Or with the parable of the rich man and Lazarus? It does show conscious awareness.