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And in a greek lexicon on studylight.org, this is what a lookup of the word "perish" gives: Bible Lexicons Old / New Testament Greek Lexical Dictionary Search for 'perish' 8 entries #Original WordTranslation TransliterationPhonetic Spelling...

This is what Strongs says about the word translated into English as perish: Strong's Concordance apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι Part of Speech: Verb Transliteration: apollumi Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee) Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing...

Okay, okay. I'm sorry too. :)

No, not so, CS1. My argument is not with what Jesus said. My argument is with your interpretation of what He said.

Except that now, the wages of sin is being said to not be death but to rather be eternal life of torment. So you would have to change it to say: For the wages of sin is an eternal life of torment but the gift of God is eternal life...

Actually, I would think Revelation 20 would be at least a little more supportive of what you say is true...at least it has the unholy trinity being said to be tormented day and night forever and ever.

I disagree that it is deflection. Those who think they were born without Gods' eternal Spirit in them but only receive His eternal Spirit after their new birth, will automatically be able to do no other than believe the second death is actual and total death rather than an eternal life of...

I agree that ample scripture bears out that something changed after Jesus' resurrection and that it appears post resurrection that there is an awareness in death rather than sleep as before. I do not, however, find evidence that this awareness will continue for humans after the second death.

The real and true argument here is over whether men are born eternal beings or not.

No...God does not say death is continuous. He says death is eternal. Eternally dead with no hope of ever changing that. In fact, the place - hell- that was prepared to house the demons - is thrown into the lake of fire in the end, along with death. Why is death annihilated in that lake of fire...

Try to think about how the last things He throws into the lake of fire are hell and its contents, and death - and how death is destroyed in that fire but hell and its contents aren't? Biblically, the only ones that are strictly and specifically said to be in torment day and night forever and...

I disagree. I think to think eternal death means eternally dead is biblical and to think eternal death means eternal living is unbiblical.

I disagree. I don't think death is continuous. I think death is final.

Well, once again, to be dead eternally, is a final and eternal state.

No, I didn't even notice the website. I was agreeing with what he wrote, that destroy means annihilate, loss of life, perish...

I agree...

Well, once again, that the parable or story shows a consciousness in death while the OT shows sleep can be dealt with reasonably in this manner: Jesus' death changed that somehow. Many verses seem to confirm this as true. But this does not prove that, after the second death, it will remain so.

You know, the verse says to not fear a man who can destroy your body but to fear God who can destroy BOTH body and soul in hell. Some argue that a soul= mind, emotions and spirit. In that case, destroying the soul in hell would include destroying the spirit in hell. Not to say that I think...

He has said he doesn't believe they WILL hear it, and that even the thought of them will not come to mind or be remembered. Maybe you missed one of his posts.

I mean, I don't agree with him on the point but gosh sakes, he did address what he thinks about it!