A NON-CHARISMATIC UNDERSTANDING OF TONGUES
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Did you mean the foundation of the tongues doctrine? That has to do with God mocking those in unbelief and yet for all that they still refuse to believe. Its not in Webster's but is in the bible. Isiah 28 confirms it as a sign against those who refuse to hear prophecy after the manner of tongues as a fact of not believing God after any manner of prophecy . It is why the sign confirm them in unbelief... yet they still see no evil in creating their own: But we will certainly do whatsoever thing comes out of our own mouth as oral traditions of the fathers .
As for the word that thou hast spoken unto us in the name of the Lord, we will not hearken unto thee. But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.Jerimiah 44:16 17
Stammering lips..
1) mocking, derision, stammering
1a) mocking, derision
1b) stammerings
For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they "would not hear".Isaiah 28:11-12
1 Corinthians 14:21-22 King James Version (KJV) In the law (isaiah 28) it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Find the meaning as to what the sign confirms and who it speaks to? Then the rest of the doctrines falls in to place. Or you could say ignore it fall back hoping someone is there to catch. Wouldn't want to be slain in the spirit. .
Isaiah 28:11 (YLT)
11 For by scorned lip, and by another tongue, Doth He speak unto this people.
Isaiah 28:11 (NCV)
11 So the LORD will use strange words and foreign languages to speak to these people.
Isaiah 28:11 (GWT)
11 The LORD will speak to these people. He will mock them by speaking in a foreign language.
Isaiah 28:11 (ESV)
11 For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people,
Isaiah 28:11 (ASV)
11 Nay, but by men of strange lips and with another tongue will he speak to this people;
NOTICE: That is what Happen on the Day of Pentecost.
And NOTICE it was in other Languages.
And NOTICE it was ALWAYS TO UNBELIEVING JEWS.
NOTICE the word Stammering is not use in many translation, and it does not mean what you think.
Notice it implies that they would HEAR IT.
That has NOTHING to do with what the Charismatic Churches are doing today, which can called nothing but Jibber Jabber.
trying to use gibberish to mock gibberish while trying to convey a message knowing that they will never get a message, and this is clearly done with righteous anger. If man try to do that I can imagine seizures or possibly stroke, but God is God, wow,
I'm trying to imagine God's anger on those people
And I quite from a wise friend on cc.com
"The people of God are destroyed by their lack of knowledge and ignorance" ~Demi777
"The people of God are destroyed by their lack of knowledge and ignorance" ~Demi777
NOT AT ALL, the True Tongues is earthly languages of the unbelieving JEWS, specifically Proclaiming the Mighty Works of GOD. IT SAYS SO.
Then you are behind the TIMES, you need to imagine this:
2 Chronicles 30:8-9 (HCSB)
8 Don’t become obstinate now like your fathers did. Give your allegiance to Yahweh, and come to His sanctuary that He has consecrated forever. Serve the LORD your God so that He may turn His burning anger away from you,
9 for when you return to Yahweh, your brothers and your sons ⌊will receive⌋ mercy in the presence of their captors and will return to this land. For Yahweh your God is gracious and merciful; He will not turn ⌊His⌋ face away from you if you return to Him.”
Psalm 103:6-11 (HCSB)
6 The LORD executes acts of righteousness and justice for all the oppressed.
7 He revealed His ways to Moses, His deeds to the people of Israel.
8 The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger and rich in faithful love.
9 He will not always accuse ⌊us⌋ or be angry forever.
10 He has not dealt with us as our sins deserve or repaid us according to our offenses.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is His faithful love toward those who fear Him.
Isaiah 57:15-16 (ESV)
15 For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.
16 For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made.
Jeremiah 3:12 (ESV)
12 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, “‘Return, faithless Israel, declares the LORD. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the LORD; I will not be angry forever.
15 For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite.
16 For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made.
Jeremiah 3:12 (ESV)
12 Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, “‘Return, faithless Israel, declares the LORD. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the LORD; I will not be angry forever.
Isaiah 28:11
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
bə·la·‘ă·ḡê
בְּלַעֲגֵ֣י
with stammering
śā·p̄āh,
שָׂפָ֔ה
lips
ū·ḇə·lā·šō·wn
וּבְלָשׁ֖וֹן
and tongue
’a·ḥe·reṯ;
אַחֶ֑רֶת
another
yə·ḏab·bêr
יְדַבֵּ֖ר
He will speak
’el-
אֶל־
to
hā·‘ām
הָעָ֥ם
people
11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
bə·la·‘ă·ḡê
בְּלַעֲגֵ֣י
with stammering
śā·p̄āh,
שָׂפָ֔ה
lips
ū·ḇə·lā·šō·wn
וּבְלָשׁ֖וֹן
and tongue
’a·ḥe·reṯ;
אַחֶ֑רֶת
another
yə·ḏab·bêr
יְדַבֵּ֖ר
He will speak
’el-
אֶל־
to
hā·‘ām
הָעָ֥ם
people
Mark 16:
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
1Corinthians 14:
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
1Corinthians 14:
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
It means mocking them with what they learned as children, which is the mighty works of GOD.
Acts 2:5-12 (ASV)
5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
6 And when this sound was heard, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speaking in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying, Behold, are not all these that speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born?
9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, in Judaea and Cappadocia, in Pontus and Asia,
10 in Phrygia and Pamphylia, in Egypt and the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and sojourners from Rome, both Jews and proselytes,
11 Cretans and Arabians, we hear them speaking in our tongues the mighty works of God.
12 And they were all amazed, and were perplexed, saying one to another, What meaneth this?
When are you going to learn to read it thoroughly, instead of just skimming over it, and then ASSUMING you know what it means?
Really? I had given you the benefit of better reading comprehension.
Acts 10: 44 ¶ While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
They of the circumcision are Jews who did not believe that Gentiles could be saved.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I am quite sure it is what I think. I sign of unbelief ,not a "sign gift" no such thing. We walk by faith (the unseen) Those who seek after signs in order to confirm something outwardly as Christ said; that they may be seen of men., They have they have their reward of glorying in the flesh.
But a sign as curse against the whole world using the Jew to represent unbelief in the heart of man.
God mocking those who mock him with their oral traditions of men that do make His word without effect. Like this oral tradition of men who seek after signs that they have named tongues. (not the tongue the Bible speaks of, But do they not look to the foundation of the doctrine..
For with stammering lips (God mocking unbelief in the heart of men) and another tongue (a new manner of prophecy in other languages other than Hebrew) will he speak to this people.( mocking unbelievers) To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they. ( mocking unbelievers) would not hear.Isaiah 28
1 Corinthians 14:21-22 King James Version (KJV) In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
They like Peter did not want to believe that Gentiles could be saved. There were in their number some who did not believe and were there to spy out the activities of the apostles for the purpose of reporting back to the authorities in Jerusalem.
Acts 11: 2 And when Peter was come up to Jerusalem, they that were of the circumcision contended with him,
3 Saying, Thou wentest in to men uncircumcised, and didst eat with them.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Reading comprehension? Seriously, man, you know better than to make silly and irrelevant ad hominem comments like that.
As for your theory, somehow it morphed from "Jews who do not believe in Jesus for salvation" to "Jews who do not believe Gentiles can be saved."
That is a MASSIVE difference and is not supported by Isaiah 28... at all.
What is Acts 10 to do with Isaiah 28? It is clear from the text in Acts 10 that the Jews did not want to believe that God would save Gentiles. Isaiah is clearly a pronouncement of captivity on Israel by the Assyrians. Common point would be that the Jews hated the Assyrians for their brutal treatment of Israel when they were captives.
Prejudice in biblical times? Christians do not hate Israel but much of the rest of the world has a deep hatred for Israel.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
An excellent example of irrelevance. Go back to VCO's post that I quoted, which referenced Isaiah 28. If you have a problem with his post, take it up with him.
Not at all since you conveniently ignore that there were indeed unbelieving Jews present in Acts 10. They contended with Peter in Acts 11. I'm certain that you understand the continuation of the narrative from Acts 10 to Acts 11.
For the cause of Christ
Roger