A woman as a Pastor? Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

[elf3]

I'll say this again as I have said on other forums. We argue over a point that DOES not deal with salvation, justification, sanctification ect. Yet we are willing to conform to the world and accept other world views into the church; condoning homosexuality by allowing gay pastors and gay marriages. I believe that is a sin. Is having a woman as a Pastor a sin as defined by God? Not looking at anything about church hierarchy here but looking at God defined sin.

 

[ISeeYou]

Says women can teach these good things (to young women)

Ti 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Ti 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Ti 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

 

[elf3]

The church is in a very sad state if we are concerned more with who preaches rather than what is being preached.

 

[fredjames]

I went to church with a friend. She told me that her grandparents ran the church. I did not think that her grandma was the pastor. I have heard of women being pastors but have never seen one. I may have said something that made her a little upset. She said to me if men were doing what they were suppose to be doing taking care of their families and being men there would be no dissicuson or need for women pastors! Does it make it right if there is a need for pastors?

Sorry to say about your friend in loving Grace and Truth, that she is a seed of the 'spirit' of anti-CHRIST. With all due respect to you as another women, not in offending nor practicing any authority, please let me give you just one Scripture, as only GOD to judge 'right' and 'fair' this matter.

As it is written;

"Women are not allowed to teach nor practice authority over men."

Unknowingly or knowingly twisting GOD's Word as it is written, is only a deception caused by the 'flesh/carnal' and it's 'passions' and 'desires' wisdom and acts in accordance to the traditions of men, similar to this perishing world, that may 'sound wise' and they 'did what was pleasing in their sight'.

And according to the Word of GOD, there is no mention of women pastors/leaders but only men, written according to 1 Timothy chapter 3, and in verse 2, it is written;

"Therefore 'an overseer' must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, .............. He ............ He .............."

Women are therefore allowed to prophesy and pray, with 'a covering', according to 1 Corinthians chapter 11.

Prophesying is about, some 'revelation' or 'knowledge' or 'prophecy' or 'teaching' of the Holy Scripture and according to the Holy Scripture, of the Holy Bible.

You may share these with your friend and also this, that hating another Christian, even a 'weak leader' and justifying another vain doctrine, is 'murder' and 'sexual immorality', fruits of the 'flesh/carnal'. Please also pray for her, to GOD, to forgive her and help her understand what is Spiritual and that is already written and already established, as the New Covenant, for all believer to believe and have faith in 'one' and 'abide' in them and be fruitful and their fruit must also 'abide'.

Thank you, i merely an unworthy servant of CHRIST, just doing my duty and be blessed, your friend and you, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

 

[ISeeYou]

Says women can teach these good things (to young women)

Ti 2:3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;

Ti 2:4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,

Ti 2:5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.

Again if you follow through here its without the word (in relation to their own husbands) even when they themselves obey not the word

1Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives,be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

1 Peter 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

Then here...

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1 Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

But at least it shows

Ti 2:4 That they may teach the young women (like in the above)

 

[Kaycie]

Again if you follow through here its without the word (in relation to their own husbands) even when they themselves obey not the word

1Peter 3:1 Likewise, ye wives,be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;

1 Peter 3:2 While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear.

Then here...

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

1 Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

But at least it shows

Ti 2:4 That they may teach the young women (like in the above)

Right, the wiser Christian women are to teach the younger Christian women, but are not to teach over the men of the congregation. I'm not saying that they are not capable of doing so, just that they are not permitted by God to teach over the men.

 

[ISeeYou]

Right, the wiser Christian women are to teach the younger Christian women, but are not to teach over the men of the congregation. I'm not saying that they are not capable of doing so, just that they are not permitted by God to teach over the men.

It appears so, this is one teaching I have gone in reverse on, I used to try and find ways around it, but I couldnt convince my conscience that I was correct and had a change of heart with it. In otherwords, I stopped playing dodge ball with it. But nothing I posted was to anything you had said, Im not even sure what you had posted.

But I definately dont see it in the churches, or with ones own husband, even over a husband that obeys not the word, seems to cover a big area

I used to hate that (and fight it) now I love it (and embrace it)

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

It appears so, this is one teaching I have gone in reverse on, I used to try and find ways around it, but I couldnt convince my conscience that I was correct and had a change of heart with it. In otherwords, I stopped playing dodge ball with it. But nothing I posted was to anything you had said, Im not even sure what you had posted.

But I definately dont see it in the churches, or with ones own husband, even over a husband that obeys not the word, seems to cover a big area

I used to hate that (and fight it) now I love it (and embrace it)

It's funny how we can hate something so much, but God is like "Nope, not gonna happen the way you want" and then we fight/wrestle with it until He molds us in the way He desires and then we are like "wow, you were so right Lord"

 

[elf3]

Have a look at it this way. First define sin. Anything we do that is against God's love is a sin. Think of every sin mentioned in the Bible. Every one is somehow related to God's love and doing the opposite. Now think of God's will. God's will for us is to glorify Him. Now think does God actually make any of the church hierarchy a commandment? No He does not. So if a female is called by God to lead a church and she refuses because "women cannot lead churches" would she then be out of God's will for her life? There are only two people that make any commandments in all of Scripture; God the Father and Jesus. And every one of those commands were actually spoken out loud to someone. God spoke to Moses, Jesus spoke to the people. The Holy Spirit spoke thru the writers of the NT but they did not add any commands that were not directly spoken by God the Father or by Jesus.

Ok that's my case for female pastors. Some will agree some wont. But do not in either way condemn your brother or sister for an opposite view from you. This again has no bearing on our salvation, justificstion, sanctification ect.

Crossnote and Kaycie both disagree with my on this subject and that's fine. They are both still my brother and sister in Christ and my love for them is in Christ. We may disagree on this subject but we agree on the Gospel and that is more important.

Let's center our love on Christ and teach the gospel of Christ as the full church of Christ.

 

[ISeeYou]

It's funny how we can hate something so much, but God is like "Nope, not gonna happen the way you want" and then we fight/wrestle with it until He molds us in the way He desires and then we are like "wow, you were so right Lord"

Its weird, I have all my studies (words overturned) OT and NT examples on pages and pages of me trying to get this under me (spiritualizing this, and that) but I just couldnt do it, there were holes in it (and I hate holes, I like them filled in). I went forward (not convinced) but in a place where I wanted to convince myself but I wasnt convincing myself I felt I was being dishonest with my own doubts. Then I stopped joining in the conversations (couldnt do it for some time after) and when I observed them I would cringe, the responses just werent sitting right with me. The typical one verse pitted against the other type stuff, or the ignoring it (minimizing it) just all of that.

This was the only area in my studying that I ever had a fight with. But seeing how things get nutso online (and these trolls) and infighting (and all of that) I can see now that I couldnt handle the responsibility of pulling in some of these beasts as one should (if they have have Gods charge). For me that requires a very strong man in Christ to do, and it does not sit well with me (again) when a woman takes that place.

So strong men in Christ are needed in the body (if you ask me) because look at it, its all over the place.

But that was just one place I wasnt willing to subject myself, and I was determined to win it and ended up dropping it some years back. That took some time for me to come to grips with that.

I run into others like myself (now though) and I think man, how did I do that before? Im just too tired to go there again because I had such a fight in me over it.

The word of the Lord kicked my butt on it and now I am cool with it

It is amazing, because I was so resentful I sorta went to myself FINE! Ill shut up and let all these goons that dont even know what their talking about teach me (rolled eyes). I had an attitude problem along with it. But there were things I wasnt seeing, responsibilities that go with it that a woman should not be suffered to take on as I understand it.

But I get it, thats where I am now, and Im sure I will run into someone else who feels differently and takes up the same arguments I have likely seen a thousand times over lol

I am understanding about it, and fairy easy to disagree with.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Ack... post 666 for you!

Well, I am glad you think men are needed in the Body of Christ now. (sorry, getting tired ;-))

 

[ISeeYou]

Ack... post 666 for you!

Well, I am glad you think men are needed in the Body of Christ now. (sorry, getting tired ;-))

Hey, thanks lol

I was waiting for that to come up, and I missed it, but look I marked the moment for us because as soon as I respond the numbers will change



Look at the time ( whoa...6 minutes)

What a creepy moment it is for me

 

[Messenger_of_Fire]

The same old threads over and over again. For most of us, our very first teachers were our MOMS! Now we find that some of those very people that were taught first by a woman, is telling their moms and other females to be silent. I just wished we would think about these things fully in order to come up with what the bible is really trying to say.

 

[JustinFromTwinCities]

Hey, thanks lol

I was waiting for that to come up, and I missed it, but look I marked the moment for us because as soon as I respond the numbers will change

View attachment 96848

Look at the time ( whoa...6 minutes)

What a creepy moment it is for me

haha thats perfect

 

[ISeeYou]

Scripture speaks of parents teaching their children thats a good thing

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

What a heated debate

How I see this is that women are suppose to minister but should never be the head of a church. When Paul was critical of women in the Bible you will find that he was talking to the ladies because they were not dressing properly and as you girls know that can distract the men folk. Woman were stepping into leadership roles and Paul said that is not what is suppose to happen. Can woman minister? Of course they can but I think the problem is leadership of the church.

We all have our roles inside the body of Christ but the head cannot do the function of the hands. We should keep to our calling and listen to the word of God. Do we get women that is good leaders? Yes we do but they should lead within the Biblical guidelines.

 

[Mitspa]

Sorry to say about your friend in loving Grace and Truth, that she is a seed of the 'spirit' of anti-CHRIST. With all due respect to you as another women, not in offending nor practicing any authority, please let me give you just one Scripture, as only GOD to judge 'right' and 'fair' this matter.

As it is written;

"Women are not allowed to teach nor practice authority over men."

Unknowingly or knowingly twisting GOD's Word as it is written, is only a deception caused by the 'flesh/carnal' and it's 'passions' and 'desires' wisdom and acts in accordance to the traditions of men, similar to this perishing world, that may 'sound wise' and they 'did what was pleasing in their sight'.

And according to the Word of GOD, there is no mention of women pastors/leaders but only men, written according to 1 Timothy chapter 3, and in verse 2, it is written;

"Therefore 'an overseer' must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, .............. He ............ He .............."

Women are therefore allowed to prophesy and pray, with 'a covering', according to 1 Corinthians chapter 11.

Prophesying is about, some 'revelation' or 'knowledge' or 'prophecy' or 'teaching' of the Holy Scripture and according to the Holy Scripture, of the Holy Bible.

You may share these with your friend and also this, that hating another Christian, even a 'weak leader' and justifying another vain doctrine, is 'murder' and 'sexual immorality', fruits of the 'flesh/carnal'. Please also pray for her, to GOD, to forgive her and help her understand what is Spiritual and that is already written and already established, as the New Covenant, for all believer to believe and have faith in 'one' and 'abide' in them and be fruitful and their fruit must also 'abide'.

Thank you, i merely an unworthy servant of CHRIST, just doing my duty and be blessed, your friend and you, in the name of LORD JESUS CHRIST.

"seed of antichrist" ??? some of you guys need to get off the computer and give your religious minds a break.... did God appoint women as leaders and judges over men in the Old Testament law? Did Paul not use the law as the example?

 

[elf3]

Brother Gandalf mentioned this is a "heated" debate. I pray you all know that I never got "heated" over this. I did not write any of what I wrote out of anger or frustration. Some may "look heated" but we're never written from being "heated".

This is also a subject where we should understand a couple verses written by Paul. Romans 14:13-23 where Paul talks about causing another to stumble. If your "conscience" is pulling you one way or another then stick to it on this subject. And also do not try to make another go against their "conscience". I am not trying to "force" anyone to "believe like me" on this subject. I am just showing why I believe what and why I believe it. If this subject causes a "rift" between any of us true believers in Christ then maybe we should change this subject right here right now to the Gospel. I know two people on here that totally disagree on this subject but yet are still wonderful friends. We need to follow suit if we are feeling a "rift". Agree to disagree.

God bless you all! I love you all in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior!

 

[WebersHome]

What a heated debate

The reason it's heated is because for some people; female pastors is a
political issue rather than a spiritual issue. Were it strictly a spiritual issue,
then Jesus Christ would have the final say and the rebellious women in our
midst would sit down and shut up just as Paul instructed.

†. 1Cor 14:37 . . If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let
him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the
commandments of The Lord.

†. 1Ths 4:1-2 . .We beseech you, brethren, and exhort you by the Lord
Jesus, that as ye have received of us how ye ought to walk and to please
God, so ye would abound more and more. For ye know what commandments
we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

†. 1Tim 2:11-13 . . Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I
suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be
in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

†. 1Cor 14:34-35 . . Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is
not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under
obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn anything, let them ask
their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

=================================

 

[p_rehbein]

The reason it's heated is because for some people; female pastors is a
political issue rather than a spiritual issue. Were it strictly a spiritual issue,
then Jesus Christ would have the final say and the rebellious women in our
midst would sit down and shut up just as Paul instructed.


Now, that's funny................goodness