Are You Rapture Ready?

[Lovette]

Now that you finally said the forbidden word.
Tell me how Rev 20 now works out for you.

It is like you finally admitted the 1st resurrection STARTED 2000 years ago, with firstfruits.

Ist fruits= Jesus and the resurrected saints of paradise.
Main harvest = 1st thes 4.
Corners and gleaners= the martyred saints (the innumerable number in heaven....ahem..waving palm branches)

All the "first resurrection."

Hello...waving palm.branches...hello, sound familiar????

But you will dodge it all.
(I posted it for the reader.)

Now Rev 20, "they lived and reigned", has nothing to do with a "1st resurrection" HAPPENING right before the mil.
I mean, can you stop a second and play out the postrib theory???
You guys say the dead in Christ rise first, hello,,,,AT THE SECOND COMING and meet Jesus in the air!!
Ahem.... you really are unaware, that if you claim a "1st resurrection", at verse 20,
YOU ARE NOW PLACING A SECOND FIRST RESURRECTION AFTER THE BATTLE?????

Ludicrous.

You’re raising a real debate that exists in Christian eschatology, especially around how to interpret the “first resurrection” in Book of Revelation 20. Different traditions reconcile these passages differently, so the disagreement you’re pointing out is exactly where the theological arguments focus.

Let me outline the pieces you mentioned and how they are usually handled.

1. Your framework (harvest model)​

You’re describing an interpretation based on the harvest pattern in Scripture:

• Firstfruits – Jesus Christ and the resurrected saints in Gospel of Matthew 27:52–53
• Main harvest – believers raised at the event described in First Epistle to the Thessalonians 4:16–17
• Gleanings/corners – martyrs and tribulation saints (often associated with the palm-branch multitude in Book of Revelation 7)

The harvest metaphor itself comes from passages like:

• First Epistle to the Corinthians 15:20–23 — Christ as “firstfruits.”

In that model, the “first resurrection” is a category, not a single moment in time.
It spans multiple phases of resurrection for the righteous.

So in that framework:

First resurrection = the entire resurrection program of the righteous.

That avoids the problem you’re pointing out.

 

[Blain]

If the request is one verse often cited for a post-tribulation rapture, a commonly referenced one is from the Gospel of Matthew:

Matthew 24:29–31
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Many people who hold a post-tribulation view point to this passage because the gathering of the elect is described as happening “after the tribulation.”

Different Christian traditions interpret this passage differently (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc.), but that verse is frequently used in post-trib discussions.

interesting verse to use but is one verse enough to build an entire doctrine from? honestly whether pre mid or post I don't think a single verse is solid enough evidence to build an entire doctrine

 

[Lovette]

interesting verse to use but is one verse enough to build an entire doctrine from? honestly whether pre mid or post I don't think a single verse is solid enough evidence to build an entire doctrine

Then how about the entire book of revelation? Lord Jesus returns in Rev. 19:11-16, after all the judgements.

 

[Blain]

Then how about the entire book of revelation? Lord Jesus returns in Rev. 19:11-16, after all the judgements.

Yes the day of the Lord is usually what this is refered to the train of thought is that it is not the same as the rapture it is his second coming yes but the bible also speaks of us coming to him in the cloud so to many there are two seperate events one being the coming to him and the other him coming to us.

personally I don't really believe they are but to many it can be interpreted as two seperate events.

 

[Lovette]

Yes the day of the Lord is usually what this is refered to the train of thought is that it is not the same as the rapture it is his second coming yes but the bible also speaks of us coming to him in the cloud so to many there are two seperate events one being the coming to him and the other him coming to us.

personally I don't really believe they are but to many it can be interpreted as two seperate events.

They may be two seperate events, but they are back to back - second coming, mass resurrection, rapture, in this order.

 

[Psalm1]

If the request is one verse often cited for a post-tribulation rapture, a commonly referenced one is from the Gospel of Matthew:

Matthew 24:29–31
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days… they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”

Many people who hold a post-tribulation view point to this passage because the gathering of the elect is described as happening “after the tribulation.”

Different Christian traditions interpret this passage differently (pre-trib, mid-trib, post-trib, etc.), but that verse is frequently used in post-trib discussions.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.
I agree the second coming is postr trib and wrath.
I agree that after tge wrath angels ( not Jesus) gather the elect ( in heaven as your verse declares) to gather in heaven to mount the white horses.
Yes, as your verse indicates , the church is already in heaven during the 7yr trib.

I was hoping for a verse pointing to the rapture being postrib, or supposedly at the 2nd Coming.
So far, in over 40 yrs of study, I have never seen one.


It is a huge task, trying to find one.

 

[Psalm1]

You don't believe Jesus when He said it and on what He meant by the last day.

So He will leave you in your strong delusion.

Show me the last day.
You have posted it 50 times and don't know what the last day is?????

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Show me the last day.
You have posted it 50 times and don't know what the last day is?????

You'll jusr reject it. Better to just let Jesus handle this since He said it!

We'll see soon enough. I believe our generation will see the end times come to pass!


🕊

 

[Omegatime]

They may be two seperate events, but they are back to back - second coming, mass resurrection, rapture, in this order.

The Day of the Lord cannot happen when the Lord returns at the end of the Tribulation. The fighting and misery is over. Need to study the Day of the Lord

 

[Blain]

They may be two seperate events, but they are back to back - second coming, mass resurrection, rapture, in this order.

what makes you think they are back to back? when reading revelations it doesn't appear to be the case

 

[WiselyWoven]

When in Biblical history did God pour His wrath over His OBEDIENT faithful children?

God's "wrath" is reserved for the "children of disobedience" (Eph. 5:6; Col. 3:6). Do not be found among them.

my "snarky mess" was purely in response to the rather vivid fantasy you related wherein you hoped all post-tribbers get left behind in the Rapture.

The hackneyed buzzwords "rapture" and "left behind" have caused massive hemorrhaging in the body of Christ. Most folks do not understand that the "one taken, one left" episode is NOT the tribulation. It is what is known as the reckoning (another topic for another time).

The entire "Left Behind" enterpri$e is based upon a perversion of Scripture: "Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left." (Mat. 24:40-41). Isn't that the rapture? No, that's a classic twist created by the Rapture Cult.

Jesus says his return will be just like in the days of Noah. He says all of Noah's neighbors were unsaved people who were eating and drinking and they didn't know the flood was coming until it came and "took them all away." So when the flood came, who got "taken away"? The evil ones, who didn't know the judgement was coming: "And knew not until the flood came and took them all away; So shall also the coming of the son of man be." (Mat. 24:39).

Jesus says the one will be taken and the other left. So who got taken? The one who was destroyed, just as it was in the days of Noah. In fact, when the disciples asked where they were taken, Jesus said look for the vultures, for that's where the dead bodies will be: "And they answered and said unto Him, Where Lord? And He said unto them, Wheresoever the body is there will the eagles be gathered together." (Luke 17:37). IOW, you want to be left behind!

 

[Lovette]

what makes you think they are back to back? when reading revelations it doesn't appear to be the case

Why not? The dead will rise FIRST, that is precisely the case. When is that? Second coming, Rev. 20:1-5.

 

[Lovette]

The Day of the Lord cannot happen when the Lord returns at the end of the Tribulation. The fighting and misery is over. Need to study the Day of the Lord

The Day of the Lord is exactly the day of the Lord's return, which is unequivocally post trib, Matt. 24:29.

 

[Blain]

Why not? The dead will rise FIRST, that is precisely the case. When is that? Second coming, Rev. 20:1-5.

I don't see how the dead rising first has to do with the order in which it all happens because if it is two seperate events then it cannot be back to back mainly because if the rapture and the return of Christ were back to back then it would read as such but if you notice in the book of revelation they are spoken of in seperate parts of the book in fact several things occur before the actual return of Christ and the rapture wgile being on of them is not spoken of in the same section as the return of Christ

 

[Psalm1]

Why not? The dead will rise FIRST, that is precisely the case. When is that? Second coming, Rev. 20:1-5.

"This is the first resurrection" in Rev 20 is pointing to those sitting on thrones THAT WERE BEHEADED.

You CAN NOT possibly apply all dead in Christ to those who died in the trib.

There are millions of saints in graves right now.

The rapture is the dead in Christ.

So not only is the setting wrong ( pssst, the setting of your misplaced verse is AFTER YHE SECOND COMING), but also the RESURRECTION is actually POING BACK IN TIME.

Even in your doctrinal application, the ACTUAL RAISING OF THOSE ON THRONES IS WAY BEFORE they are seated on those thrones.

But you are trying so hard to manufacture a resurrection at the 2nd Coming on white horses.

I already showed you that revelation. 14 verse 14 has a gathering during the tribulation. So how in the world are the dead in Christ rising first, in your doctrine?
In your doctrine, they simply do not rise first. You have the dead in Christ rising up from their graves at the second coming, which is after the gathering of revelation, 14 verse 14.

 

[Psalm1]

We try to make doctrine line up with the bible.
Incorrect!
Read the word.
Let it interpret itself.

 

[Psalm1]

It's the foregone conclusion of your 50%/50% logic, if there's a pretrib "taking", the only possibility would be for the wicked, since it's them being taken by the flood, says not me, but the Lord.

Jesus said half are taken..
50% taken.
No getting around it.
Jesus said it twice.

Now there is NO SUCH THING as half the world wicked, and half righteous.
Never has been, never will be.
So it can not be a wicked pretrib rapture that you are theorizing.
Even the concept is so bizarre it is ludicrous.

 

[Lovette]

I don't see how the dead rising first has to do with the order in which it all happens because if it is two seperate events then it cannot be back to back mainly because if the rapture and the return of Christ were back to back then it would read as such but if you notice in the book of revelation they are spoken of in seperate parts of the book in fact several things occur before the actual return of Christ and the rapture wgile being on of them is not spoken of in the same section as the return of Christ

Are 1 Thess. 4:16 and 4:17 back to back?

 

[Lovette]

"This is the first resurrection" in Rev 20 is pointing to those sitting on thrones THAT WERE BEHEADED.

You CAN NOT possibly apply all dead in Christ to those who died in the trib.

There are millions of saints in graves right now.

The rapture is the dead in Christ.

So not only is the setting wrong ( pssst, the setting of your misplaced verse is AFTER YHE SECOND COMING), but also the RESURRECTION is actually POING BACK IN TIME.

Even in your doctrinal application, the ACTUAL RAISING OF THOSE ON THRONES IS WAY BEFORE they are seated on those thrones.

But you are trying so hard to manufacture a resurrection at the 2nd Coming on white horses.

I already showed you that revelation. 14 verse 14 has a gathering during the tribulation. So how in the world are the dead in Christ rising first, in your doctrine?
In your doctrine, they simply do not rise first. You have the dead in Christ rising up from their graves at the second coming, which is after the gathering of revelation, 14 verse 14.

Then once again, show me where is this "zeroth" resurrection for the "dead in Christ". According to not me, but the bible, there're only two resurrections, Dan. 12:1-2, Jn. 5:28-29. Dead in Christ rising is Paul's doctrine, not mine.

 

[Lovette]

Jesus said half are taken..
50% taken.
No getting around it.
Jesus said it twice.

So there were only 16 people of the entire earth before the flood, Noah's family of 8 entered the Ark, the rest taken by the flood. Good thinking.