baptism of the Holy Ghost

[Euphemia]

So, you assume that I do not understand because I disagree with you?
Nice try! LOL
I do understand the gift and thats why I stopped him. It was out of order!
I have disbelief in the fashion "tongues" is presented these days.
It isnt carried out according to scripture . I tend to hold fast to the word unlike you.

No, you were misguided in doing so. He was not in the wrong. You could have been tolerant of your brother. You do not fully understand the scriptures that teach us about tongues, and this is where the divergence on your part comes from.

I hold fast to the word of God...always. You can stop with your empty accusations, now, especially when you know different from what you say to me...thanks. I see you have removed me as your friend, when just the other day you said that you would not allow our differences to get in the way of that.


Hmmm.


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[Grace777x70]

....if the leader asked for them to pray either with the mind or with the spirit....they all could.....or they could just sit there and not say a word during the whole service......no body can demand for people to pray in any form..it's voluntary.....

This is not necessarily for a whole congregation to do in unison.

 

[KennethC]

If blondieindahouse was praying in tongues, she would be edified. We edify no one by tongues. God edifies the speaker. Why do you misunderstand that?




The only tongues that requires interpretation is the tongues spoken before the assembly. That is NOT prayer but it is prophecy. It is not a person speaking to God. It is GOD, SPEAKING TO THE ASSEMBLY.

It is clear you do not understand the difference between the ministry or prophetic use of tongues by God and the private, grace gift of tongues used in prayer... and are in no position to declare anything wrong. (...and I don't need to use three exclamation marks, either.)

One is God speaking to the people, and the other is the person speaking to God. Paul distinctly discusses this.


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Because your wrong as the bible says tongues done in prayer only edifies the person praying, thus why it is to be done privately and not openly out loud.

Tongues as in known human languages edifies others, because the Holy Spirit allows a person who speaks only Chinese to hear in his own language what a person speaking God's word in English is saying.

Praying in tongues is not to be done over another person if they don't know what the person is saying, and if they feel uneasy about it then they have every right to stop the person and let them know this is wrong !!!

Prophecy is separate from tongues, they are not one and the same gift Euphemia. I don't know why you want to confuse and mix the two.

The OT prophets never spoke in a unknown tongue to others, so why would they need an interpreter now ???

You are confusing two separate gifts of the Holy Spirit and making them into one !!!!

I know very well the gift of tongues, you are the one who is confused and mixing the gifts !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

Tongues can be angelic as well as human..

Tongues speak mysteries to God as well as edify the individual believer....so this could be used in a setting where everyone is praying....as a matter of fact it should be encouraged in the proper context if the people involved were learned in the subject..

tongues and the interpretation of tongues is equivalent to prophecy..just that tongues is used...with the interpretation of course..

 

[KennethC]

Tongues can be angelic as well as human..

Tongues speak mysteries to God as well as edify the individual believer....so this could be used in a setting where everyone is praying....as a matter of fact it should be encouraged in the proper context if the people involved were learned in the subject..

tongues and the interpretation of tongues is equivalent to prophecy..just that tongues is used...with the interpretation of course..

First nobody is denying the angelic as well as human, but the angelic is clearly shown by Paul that this is only done in prayer......

Second again what are you going by to tie the gift of tongues and the gift of prophecy together ???

Every single prophet mentioned in the OT spoke in the language of their area, they did not give prophecies in some unknown language.

The only time the OT spoke of a prophecy needing to be interpreted, it was an angel sent from God that personally interpreted it to the prophet who in turn gave what he was told to the others.

There was no human interpreter involved in prophecy !!!


Apostle Paul also said that he wished all would speak in tongues, showing not all will, but then went on and said he wishes we would all prophecy instead. That alone shows one who does prophecy does not have to speak in tongues as well to understand !!!

 

[Grace777x70]

1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

1 Corinthians 14:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
Here it shows that tongues with the interpretation is for edifying the church just like regular prophecy

There is a difference between tongues as a gift for the assembly that needs to be interpretated and regular prayer language for praying mysteries in the spirit to our Father as seen in..

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

 

[Euphemia]

Because your wrong as the bible says tongues done in prayer only edifies the person praying, thus why it is to be done privately and not openly out loud.

When I pray over someone, I can use tongues, depending on the company present, as I do not want to offend. Tongues is a powerful tool to thwart the enemy and to bring healing and basically, power into the situation being prayed about.

Tongues as in known human languages edifies others, because the Holy Spirit allows a person who speaks only Chinese to hear in his own language what a person speaking God's word in English is saying.

Tongues in ANY language and done for the benefit of the congregation edifies the congregation, as God is speaking. If it is prayer, then it is Holy Spirit talking to God through us, and no one needs to interpret that, and God is the edifier.

Praying in tongues is not to be done over another person if they don't know what the person is saying, and if they feel uneasy about it then they have every right to stop the person and let them know this is wrong !!!

It is a good thing to pray over pour brothers and sisters in tongues, if the Lord prompts us to do so. If there is someone present or the person being prayed over who does not grasp tongues, then we would be remiss to do it. We need to be careful not to offend people.

Prophecy is separate from tongues, they are not one and the same gift Euphemia. I don't know why you want to confuse and mix the two.

Tongues in the assembly is a gift of the prophetic. I am not the confused one, here.

The OT prophets never spoke in a unknown tongue to others, so why would they need an interpreter now ???

LOL! Tongues was not in operation before Pentecost.

You are confusing two separate gifts of the Holy Spirit and making them into one !!!!

I know very well the gift of tongues, you are the one who is confused and mixing the gifts !!!

No, I confuse nothing, here. LOL, you sure have gotten your dander up, mister! So busy dissing that you do not receive.


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[Grace777x70]

Anyway..I off to sleep..have a good night everyone and God bless!

 

[KennethC]

1 Corinthians 14:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation.

1 Corinthians 14:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.
Here it shows that tongues with the interpretation is for edifying the church just like regular prophecy

There is a difference between tongues as a gift for the assembly that needs to be interpretated and regular prayer language for praying mysteries in the spirit to our Father as seen in..

1 Corinthians 14:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands, but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

1 Corinthians 14:14-15 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will pray with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

When I pray over someone, I can use tongues, depending on the company present, as I do not want to offend. Tongues is a powerful tool to thwart the enemy and to bring healing and basically, power into the situation being prayed about.



Tongues in ANY language and done for the benefit of the congregation edifies the congregation, as God is speaking. If it is prayer, then it is Holy Spirit talking to God through us, and no one needs to interpret that, and God is the edifier.



It is a good thing to pray over pour brothers and sisters in tongues, if the Lord prompts us to do so. If there is someone present or the person being prayed over who does not grasp tongues, then we would be remiss to do it. We need to be careful not to offend people.



Tongues in the assembly is a gift of the prophetic. I am not the confused one, here.



LOL! Tongues was not in operation before Pentecost.



No, I confuse nothing, here. LOL, you sure have gotten your dander up, mister! So busy dissing that you do not receive.


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None of the scriptures above by Grace777x70 nor does any other scripture Euphemia connect the gift of tongues and the gift of prophecy as one and the same gift.

Do you two even know what prophecy is ???

Nowhere I repeat again does any prophet of the OT ever speak in a unknown language.......

Prophecy is always given in dreams and visions, not tongues !!!

It is the dream and visions that need to be interpreted and every single time in the OT an angel of God is sent to give the person understanding of the prophecy..........Another person is not appointed to interpret it !!!

 

[Euphemia]

LOL! When the Lord speaks to His people through a person in tongues, that is prophecy. Do you not understand what prophecy is? It is the word of God delivered to us. It is more forthtelling than the commonly believed foretelling!!!

Prophecy can be delivered in dreams and visions and it can come from the word itself, or from God Himself speaking through His people. Come on. Get into the New Covenant! However, as you insist on the OT, here is something for you:

Joel 2:28-29
“Then, after doing all those things,
I will pour out my Spirit upon all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy.
Your old men will dream dreams,
and your young men will see visions.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]In those days I will pour out my Spirit
even on servants—men and women alike.


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[blondieindahouse]

Its actually called utterance isnt it? Not everyone receives this gift. There are other gifts as well. But together we are the body of Christ.
I do believe there are those who have it. I also have witnessed another version of tongues out of order in the pentecostal steeple therefore they were operating from another spirit. have seen some crazy stuff.

1 Corinth 14: 26What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; 28but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.…

This is my input post #15.
I obviously do understand !!!!!!! I guess you bear false witness against me.

It is clear you do not understand the difference between the ministry or prophetic use of tongues by God and the private, grace gift of tongues used in prayer... and are in no position to declare anything wrong. (...and I don't need to use three exclamation marks, either.)

I do need to use exclamation marks for you. I am trying to get your attention. You speak as if you are some authority on this and you arent.

Tongues is not the baptism of The Holy Spirit and tongues is focused on way too much by people like you. Funny how for 1800 yrs the church didnt have this "movement."
The enemy has used this and brought in an imitation in many instances. Those instances are when it is not in operation according to scripture.. That is ALL I HAVE WITNESSED.

 

[blondieindahouse]

Its sounding like tongues can be just about anything according to some people

 

[Euphemia]

This is my input post #15.
I obviously do understand !!!!!!! I guess you bear false witness against me.




I do need to use exclamation marks for you. I am trying to get your attention. You speak as if you are some authority on this and you arent.

Tongues is not the baptism of The Holy Spirit and tongues is focused on way too much by people like you. Funny how for 1800 yrs the church didnt have this "movement."
The enemy has used this and brought in an imitation in many instances. Those instances are when it is not in operation according to scripture.. That is ALL I HAVE WITNESSED.

LOL! I gather you must be speaking to me?

I am certainly no authority, but I do not cast out what God teaches me. Should I, based on what you think? Hardly. Where have I ever borne false witness against anyone here?? Please provide proof.

I never focus on one aspect of the anointing, nor do I focus on tongues. I speak of it here because it is part of the discussion---most likely brought up by its detractors, and most often for reasons of strife.

What do you mean, "People like me"? How the worm turns, eh? Once so sweet and friendly and now bitter lemons...and ad hominems!


The Church, the Body of Christ has always had the ministry of the Holy Spirit going on, so your idea concerning 1800 years is moot.

Where Holy Spirit is welcome and the word of God is preached, the enemy cannot even get close enough to do any harm. He is repelled by people who know who they are in Christ and know WHOSE they are and obey the word. You are only fomenting fear, and that comes from a denominational influence and poor teaching.


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[KennethC]

Its sounding like tongues can be just about anything according to some people

Yes I know as Apostle Paul clearly made and showed a difference between gift of tongues and gift of prophecy, he did not say they are one and the same.

He even said it in the way that a person with the gift of prophecy doesn't have to have the gift of tongues to, but some here are trying to say tongues is prophecy.

Funny I never read one Prophet mentioned in OT or in the NT that was said were speaking in tongues, as in a unknown or angelic language. They all spoke in the language of their area at the time !!!

The meaning of prophecy is getting to far of broad brush to apply it to everything but what it is !!!

 

[blondieindahouse]

Yes I know as Apostle Paul clearly made and showed a difference between gift of tongues and gift of prophecy, he did not say they are one and the same.

He even said it in the way that a person with the gift of prophecy doesn't have to have the gift of tongues to, but some here are trying to say tongues is prophecy.

Funny I never read one Prophet mentioned in OT or in the NT that was said were speaking in tongues, as in a unknown or angelic language. They all spoke in the language of their area at the time !!!

The meaning of prophecy is getting to far of broad brush to apply it to everything but what it is !!!

Funny I never read one Prophet mentioned in OT or in the NT that was said were speaking in tongues, as in a unknown or angelic language. They all spoke in the language of their area at the time !!!

The meaning of prophecy is getting to far of broad brush to apply it to everything but what it is !!

I think this would be a great study to do and a great OP.

 

[KennethC]

LOL! I gather you must be speaking to me?

I am certainly no authority, but I do not cast out what God teaches me. Should I, based on what you think? Hardly. Where have I ever borne false witness against anyone here?? Please provide proof.

I never focus on one aspect of the anointing, nor do I focus on tongues. I speak of it here because it is part of the discussion---most likely brought up by its detractors, and most often for reasons of strife.

What do you mean, "People like me"? How the worm turns, eh? Once so sweet and friendly and now bitter lemons...and ad hominems!


The Church, the Body of Christ has always had the ministry of the Holy Spirit going on, so your idea concerning 1800 years is moot.

Where Holy Spirit is welcome and the word of God is preached, the enemy cannot even get close enough to do any harm. He is repelled by people who know who they are in Christ and know WHOSE they are and obey the word. You are only fomenting fear, and that comes from a denominational influence and poor teaching.


.

I don't think Jesus and the original Apostles would agree with you on the bold.........

Matthew 5:11
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

John 15:20
Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his Lord. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept My saying, they will keep yours also.


Peter- crucified upside down


Paul- beheaded


Matthew- slain by a halberd


John- exiled on Patmos

James- put to deat by the sword by Herod Agrippa ( Acts 12:2 )


Andrew- crucified by Roman Governor, Aegeas( Aegeates )
{ bound not nailed to cross to prolong suffering }


Bartholomew- beaten with rods and then beheaded


James, son of Alpheus- beaten, stoned, then clubbed to death


Thomas- thrust through with spears, tortured with red hot plates, and then burned alive.


Philip- tortured, stoned, crucified upside down


Simon- crucified and/or sawed in half


Judas Thaddeus- beaten to death in Mesopotamia


Judas- committed suicide for betraying Jesus


Matthias- (replaced Judas) stoned to death

 

[Euphemia]

Men can persecute us, but the devil can't get near people who are speaking in tongues or just in prayer, period! He is confounded and powerless.

 

[KennethC]

Men can persecute us, but the devil can't get near people who are speaking in tongues or just in prayer, period! He is confounded and powerless.

Apostle Paul said he spoke in tongues more then anybody, yet look at the list he was still beheaded......

That means he had his head cut off, you claimed no harm done to the one's who speak in tongues. Paul's example shows we can still be harmed rather we speak in tongues or not !!!

 

[Euphemia]

Apostle Paul said he spoke in tongues more then anybody, yet look at the list he was still beheaded......

That means he had his head cut off, you claimed no harm done to the one's who speak in tongues. Paul's example shows we can still be harmed rather we speak in tongues or not !!!

One of God's promises is persecution. He doesn't promise to remove it from us. He promises that we can endure it IN HIS STRENGTH. That is NOT what I am talking about.

I am talking about how people claim that the devil can get in there and distort the gift when the people of God are employing them. He is too repulsed by that. He is far from a church that is enjoying the true manifestation of the presence of God!


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[KennethC]

One of God's promises is persecution. He doesn't promise to remove it from us. He promises that we can endure it IN HIS STRENGTH. That is NOT what I am talking about.

I am talking about how people claim that the devil can get in there and distort the gift when the people of God are employing them. He is too repulsed by that. He is far from a church that is enjoying the true manifestation of the presence of God!


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That is not at all what you just said, you said no harm can come to one who speaks in tongues.

Here is your quote:

Where Holy Spirit is welcome and the word of God is preached, the enemy cannot even get close enough to do any harm. He is repelled by people who know who they are in Christ and know WHOSE they are and obey the word. You are only fomenting fear, and that comes from a denominational influence and poor teaching.



You said clearly here that no harm can be done to us, but I showed you by two scriptures from Jesus and the outcomes of the lives of the original Apostles to show that is not true.

It is false teaching that says we can not be harmed.........

Who do you think all the people is in Revelation during the Tribulation period that the beast/man of sin/anti-christ is killing ???

It does not say these are unbelieving Jews only, it clearly shows believers in Christ as well !!!

The devil does mock God and His ways, what makes you think he is not going to distort the gift of tongues to make people follow a false version of tongues ???