Can a woman be 'called' by God into ministry to teach and preach men?

[GreenNnice]

To lean on my thoughts would be to say women can preach, because I think they should. God doesn't though as shown in what he has said. So I lean on his thoughts, and accept his truth.

no, tuck. Women CAN preach. That's what's being told you here, God HAS hundreds of women pastors in the world today, they ARE leading men to Christ. Accept it and support it.

Granted, Paul has said what he's said and that, then, makes sense that there are NOT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of women pastors in the world, only hundreds, as I see it. I don't know actual numbers, but, surely, that wisdom of Paul tempers the great majority women from really knowing that God IS calling them to be a woman pastor.

The Word is correct, it's what we turn to for answers on our life, but, God does things, still, that are beyond our knowledge and a woman CAN be a pastor. Just because Eve was deceived, as I said in last e-mail, that is a REASON for the order of man being FIRST. He is NOT the only one in the order .Woman is number two, obvously.

You said it too, you said that you would not have a woman be pastor unless there was no man 'available.' Granted, most of the time there should be men of available, but, with 100s of women pastors out there in the world today, that just further tells me, THROUGH FAITH, that God is moving a lot of women to get behind the pulpit and preach the Word as He wants them to preach it.

 

[mustaphadrink]

All woman are called to ministry...every single one of them....and gifted. But you have an agenda here ive seen for days hope your having fun.

If you do not subscribe to the truth of the priesthood of all believers which is the biblical way for ministry, then yes, I would say there is an agenda behind the question.

Until one grasps the truth of the priesthood of all believers, we thrash about discussing roles and positions, not ministries which suggests to me that the church has become an organisation and is not the body of Christ.

My impression is that the man at the top is the CEO of the organisation and ministry is all about how one aspires to and gains the top position.

This in itself is directly opposed to the teaching of Christ himself which was if you want to be great you have to be a servant to all. Sad to say, not much of that is going around.

 

[mustaphadrink]

The Word is correct, it's what we turn to for answers on our life, but, God does things, still, that are beyond our knowledge and a woman CAN be a pastor. Just because Eve was deceived, as I said in last e-mail, that is a REASON for the order of man being FIRST. He is NOT the only one in the order .Woman is number two, obviously.

And what does it mean biblically for a woman to be a shepherd? Its very simple. She looks after the sheep the same as a male shepherd does. A shepherd (pastor) is not called to lead the congregation so both male and female shepherds who lead congregations are in conflict with scripture.

The scripture is very, very clear as to who has leadership responsibility in the church. They are apostles, prophets and Elders which 25 verses make clear. In all these verses, the word shepherd is not mentioned once so that must mean shepherds DO NOT lead churches.

So the bottom line is that neither male or female shepherds/pastors are the leaders of the church.

 

[tucksma]

no, tuck. Women CAN preach. That's what's being told you here, God HAS hundreds of women pastors in the world today, they ARE leading men to Christ. Accept it and support it.

Granted, Paul has said what he's said and that, then, makes sense that there are NOT THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS of women pastors in the world, only hundreds, as I see it. I don't know actual numbers, but, surely, that wisdom of Paul tempers the great majority women from really knowing that God IS calling them to be a woman pastor.

The Word is correct, it's what we turn to for answers on our life, but, God does things, still, that are beyond our knowledge and a woman CAN be a pastor. Just because Eve was deceived, as I said in last e-mail, that is a REASON for the order of man being FIRST. He is NOT the only one in the order .Woman is number two, obvously.

You said it too, you said that you would not have a woman be pastor unless there was no man 'available.' Granted, most of the time there should be men of available, but, with 100s of women pastors out there in the world today, that just further tells me, THROUGH FAITH, that God is moving a lot of women to get behind the pulpit and preach the Word as He wants them to preach it.

Can a women be called to pastor other women? Sure. If there is one man there who is a brother (because the letter is talking about in church setting) then nope. Again you assume these women are being used, and are not defying God. You have no evidence on if God is or is not using them, other than it is how you feel. You can't state something as fact, unless you have evidence. Our evidence is the bible, yours is your feelings.

Basically until you get a verse supporting women teaching men, I'm done.

We look on his ways through his word which me and Phil are doing. Now you look at his ways, his word. Tell me where it says women teach. If it does not then they should not.

Again one verse please stating women can teach or an example of a women teaching men. (Specifically teaching, not prophesying) Until then, God bless.

 

[GreenNnice]

Can a women be called to pastor other women? Sure. If there is one man there who is a brother (because the letter is talking about in church setting) then nope. Again you assume these women are being used, and are not defying God. You have no evidence on if God is or is not using them, other than it is how you feel. You can't state something as fact, unless you have evidence. Our evidence is the bible, yours is your feelings.

Basically until you get a verse supporting women teaching men, I'm done.

We look on his ways through his word which me and Phil are doing. Now you look at his ways, his word. Tell me where it says women teach. If it does not then they should not.

Again one verse please stating women can teach or an example of a women teaching men. (Specifically teaching, not prophesying) Until then, God bless.

That's fine, tuck, just assume God is not using them; you already are, you don't need me to tell you, I guess.

Good, I'm glad you're done, I've provided TWO verses, to rightly divide Scripture, Isaiah 55 and 1 Corinthians 2 that speak of God's ability to do things beyond our understanding, so, I pray that God gives you His peace per Philipians 4:8, and, that you can understand that He has things beyond your understanding but you can be assured that He is in control and ALL the women pastors you SEE out there in the world are doing His will and ARE called , and, if you don't want to agree with the called word, then they for CERTAIN ARE BEING USED by God and they are being used to PASTOR MEN !

 

[GreenNnice]

Can a women be called to pastor other women? Sure. If there is one man there who is a brother (because the letter is talking about in church setting) then nope. Again you assume these women are being used, and are not defying God. You have no evidence on if God is or is not using them, other than it is how you feel. You can't state something as fact, unless you have evidence. Our evidence is the bible, yours is your feelings.

Basically until you get a verse supporting women teaching men, I'm done.

We look on his ways through his word which me and Phil are doing. Now you look at his ways, his word. Tell me where it says women teach. If it does not then they should not.

Again one verse please stating women can teach or an example of a women teaching men. (Specifically teaching, not prophesying) Until then, God bless.

I am EXPANDING the last post,tuck, and, do note, my caps are for emphasis, not respecting you dissfully one bit , bro

That's fine, tuck, just assume God is not using them; you already are, you don't need me to tell you, I guess.

Good, I'm glad you're done speakin on this, if that's how you're led, otherwise, I'm not.

, I've provided TWO verses, to rightly divide Scripture, Isaiah 55 and 1 Corinthians 2 that speak of God's ability to do things beyond our understanding. His ways and thoughts apply to ALL things, not just our believing in Him and what He does to save us, tuck, and, not just punishing people as Isaiah 55 is the context. THERE IS MORE!! to God's ways and thoughts than those , infinitely, more .

so, I pray that God gives you His peace per Philipians 4:7, and, that you can understand that He has things beyond your understanding but you can be assured that He is in control and ALL the women pastors you SEE out there in the world are doing His will and ARE called , and, if you don't want to agree with the called word, then they for CERTAIN ARE BEING USED by God and they are being used to PASTOR MEN !

Philippians 4:7 ►
And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

 

[mustaphadrink]

It doesn't take too long to work out that the church generally has missed the point. When you read such scriptures as Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who calls me their Lord will get into the kingdom of heaven. Only the ones who obey my Father in heaven will get in. On the day of judgment many will call me their Lord. They will say, "We preached in your name, and in your name we forced out demons and worked many miracles." But I will tell them, "I will have nothing to do with you! Get out of my sight, you evil people!"

If we see the lesson of these verses it is that there are people who do all the right things and produce the goods and yet God rejects them. To me this is saying just because you are doing what appears to be the right thing is no guarantee that it is the right thing.

Those that get into the kingdom of heaven are those who obey the Father. Now as I see it as I said before, Eldership is leadership and that is the apostles, prophets and elders. All the verses use the masculine and nowhere does it mention pastors, so we assume that leadership is male and does not include pastors.

Now, this is the crux of the matter. There are people here and in the church in general that say 'she is dong a good job of leading the church so it must be right.' What that says is we will develop a theology based on experience, not the word of God.

When we do that we are deliberately disobeying scripture, or in other words we are not obeying the Father. If those verses are true and we have no reason to believe they are not then those people are NOT going to be in the kingdom of heaven no matter how good a job they are doing because they have rejected God and his word.

I would go as far as to say that they are thwarting God's plan for his church because whilst you have one woman running the show, she is a barrier to God raising up male Elders so in fact she is actively opposing God.

I can understand why this situation has arisen because the church has become a spectator sport where the congregation are cheer leaders for the professional brought in to run the show so whether it is a man or a woman, they are happy to let the show go on if it brings success.

 

[GreenNnice]

mustaphadrinkingman: Now, this is the crux of the matter. There are people here and in the church in general that say 'she is dong a good job of leading the church so it must be right.' What that says is we will develop a theology based on experience, not the word of God.

-----------------
She is being used by God, though. Can't you see that God can take what was evil and make it good. I am not saying that her pastoring is evil either , au contraire!

But, I am just trying to understand how you think, God allowed Joseph situation to go from bad to good and Scripture states that in Genesis 50.

"But Joseph said to them (speaking of his brothers who put him in a pit, sold him to a slaveowner), “Don’t be afraid. Am I in the place of God? 20You intended to harm me, but God intended it for good to accomplish what is now being done, the saving of many lives."

Don't forget the unboldfaced part either, 'the saving of many lives.' All that God brought to good from what the brothers did to Joseph evilly.

So, God takes a woman who has become a pastor against the will of God, against the bible, and ,we, I will add, have absolute understanding of what she has been personally told by God, we can, in other words, READ God's mind, OK, then, this woman having done all these 'things' is then USED by God to produce fruit in that church, that is, where the church was dead and dying, losing membership, going away from biblical doctrine, etc. with this woman they are ALIVE .

So, this woman pastor who has done these things in this church, she is STILL going to be punished by God, you think, mustaphad?

 

[ladylynn]

I'm watching a story about a lady named GLADYS AYLWARD missionary to China. Sweet little lady who followed God's call for her to go to China. To give out the truth of Jesus Christ to everyone.

She was not even 5 ft. tall. she didn't speak chinese when she first got to China. This woman was all alone speaking about Jesus Christ to all the people. They called her "the virtuous one"

She took care of many orphans adding them to her family. She also had a price on her head by the Japanese for being a spy. Much more happend to this woman as she followed God's will for her life.

 

[parablepete]

No one is called to preach. We are called by his Gospel to be saved. Paul called on Lord. Acts 22:16

That is something that man has come up with. Unless there is a scripture that I don't know about. Possiable

 

[MidniteWelder]

No one is called to preach. We are called by his Gospel to be saved. Paul called on Lord. Acts 22:16

That is something that man has come up with. Unless there is a scripture that I don't know about. Possiable

what shall we do about this verse?

Mark 16
15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

 

[tucksma]

Like I said God presents us his ways and what to lean on in scripture. I am following those verses by following God's word, not my word.

 

[GreenNnice]

Like I said God presents us his ways and what to lean on in scripture. I am following those verses by following God's word, not my word.

I wonder, tuck, would Paul be this big-headed to think that God couldn't call a woman to pastor even after Paul said that a bishop is to be 'a husband of one wife,' as we don't need to discuss 1 Tim. 2:11-12 anymore because those two verses speak of a woman to be in submission to a pastor who is speaking, just women in general, tuck, not speaking in the LEAST bit about a woman not being able to become a teacher or a pastor . They are, just as verse 12, concludes, to be quiet and not to speak over the man who is speaking God's Word to them.

 

[tucksma]

I wonder, tuck, would Paul be this big-headed to think that God couldn't call a woman to pastor even after Paul said that a bishop is to be 'a husband of one wife,' as we don't need to discuss 1 Tim. 2:11-12 anymore because those two verses speak of a woman to be in submission to a pastor who is speaking, just women in general, tuck, not speaking in the LEAST bit about a woman not being able to become a teacher or a pastor . They are, just as verse 12, concludes, to be quiet and not to speak over the man who is speaking God's Word to them.

Can a woman be "a husband of one wife?"

This isn't about woman being in submission of the speaker. It doesn't mention a different speaker at all here. It is specifically talking about the women NOT BEING ABLE TO TEACH. How clear does it have to be? It says that women are not permitted to teach. It doesn't say women are not permitted to speak over the pastor, but to teach. You are twisting scripture.

Verse 12
12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.(RSV)

Does it say over the speaker? NO. It says over men. Does it say to keep silent with the speaker? NO.
Don't add words.
You said "to be quiet and not to speak over the man who is Speaking God's word to the" I see the be quiet part. You can imply the not speak part based off being quiet. The rest of what you said isn't mentioned in the verse. Please do not add words.

 

[notuptome]

I wonder, tuck, would Paul be this big-headed to think that God couldn't call a woman to pastor even after Paul said that a bishop is to be 'a husband of one wife,' as we don't need to discuss 1 Tim. 2:11-12 anymore because those two verses speak of a woman to be in submission to a pastor who is speaking, just women in general, tuck, not speaking in the LEAST bit about a woman not being able to become a teacher or a pastor . They are, just as verse 12, concludes, to be quiet and not to speak over the man who is speaking God's Word to them.

Paul did not write his opinions. Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. When Paul wrote opinions he said it was by permission of the Holy Spirit. In this passage there is no opinion but direct and determinate will of God.

Why do you resist the word and the Holy Spirit? Why do you not submit to what God has written? Why?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[GreenNnice]

Can a woman be "a husband of one wife?"

This isn't about woman being in submission of the speaker. It doesn't mention a different speaker at all here. It is specifically talking about the women NOT BEING ABLE TO TEACH. How clear does it have to be? It says that women are not permitted to teach. It doesn't say women are not permitted to speak over the pastor, but to teach. You are twisting scripture.

Verse 12
12 I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to keep silent.(RSV)

Does it say over the speaker? NO. It says over men. Does it say to keep silent with the speaker? NO.
Don't add words.
You said "to be quiet and not to speak over the man who is Speaking God's word to the" I see the be quiet part. You can imply the not speak part based off being quiet. The rest of what you said isn't mentioned in the verse. Please do not add words.

Tuck? C'mon, you don't get it, phil don't get it. IT's about God, it's not about God's call to YOU, you're not Angela, you WEREN'T called by God. "But ,green, I read Scripture and Scripture says that God won't call Angela. " GET OVER IT ! He HAS called Angela to be a woman pastor and she's a woman pastor OVER SPEAKERS WHO ARE MEN ! Other women too, PASTORING! Who called them? Themselves? No.
And, if you MUST say 'yes,' no one called them, fine, go with it, I've tried to be less divisive on this so that we can get to SOME agreement, anyway, of God, if not 'calling' women, then, He is just USING women to pastor in a church that needed something and someone different from Him to get that church a-going in His direction

Quit using Scripture to replace God SPEAKING to someone about going into the ministry as He would want them. You ARE trying to read God's mind, not to mention, the person, who is a WOMAN, who has been CALLED by God to pastor a church.

Paul did not write his opinions. Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. When Paul wrote opinions he said it was by permission of the Holy Spirit. In this passage there is no opinion but direct and determinate will of God.

Why do you resist the word and the Holy Spirit? Why do you not submit to what God has written? Why?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

That's true, Paul wrote HOly Spirit inspired words, but, God is God and He does things, like calling women to be pastor, among other things, that are beyond our understanding, that are 'God's mind (1 Cor. 2) and, God's ways and thoughts that are not ours, itsuptoHim (Isaiah 55)

 

[mustaphadrink]

She is being used by God, though. Can't you see that God can take what was evil and make it good. I am not saying that her pastoring is evil either , au contraire!

So, this woman pastor who has done these things in this church, she is STILL going to be punished by God, you think, mustaphad?

According to scripture, not my ideas, there are going to be people who will perform miracles and cast out demons in the name of Jesus and they are going to be rejected by God, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T OBEY HIM.

Determination by results is sinking sand.

 

[GreenNnice]

According to scripture, not my ideas, there are going to be people who will perform miracles and cast out demons in the name of Jesus and they are going to be rejected by God, BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T OBEY HIM.

Determination by results is sinking sand.

Exactly, obey Him. I don't know what 'obeying Him' is for you. It's doing whatever He calls YOU to do. That's not up to me or phil or tuck or BELIEVING or mustapha, itsnotuptome or, anyone else, it's up to Him

 

[tucksma]

Tuck? C'mon, you don't get it, phil don't get it. IT's about God, it's not about God's call to YOU, you're not Angela, you WEREN'T called by God. "But ,green, I read Scripture and Scripture says that God won't call Angela. " GET OVER IT ! He HAS called Angela to be a woman pastor and she's a woman pastor OVER SPEAKERS WHO ARE MEN ! Other women too, PASTORING! Who called them? Themselves? No.
And, if you MUST say 'yes,' no one called them, fine, go with it, I've tried to be less divisive on this so that we can get to SOME agreement, anyway, of God, if not 'calling' women, then, He is just USING women to pastor in a church that needed something and someone different from Him to get that church a-going in His direction

Quit using Scripture to replace God SPEAKING to someone about going into the ministry as He would want them. You ARE trying to read God's mind, not to mention, the person, who is a WOMAN, who has been CALLED by God to pastor a church.



That's true, Paul wrote HOly Spirit inspired words, but, God is God and He does things, like calling women to be pastor, among other things, that are beyond our understanding, that are 'God's mind (1 Cor. 2) and, God's ways and thoughts that are not ours, itsuptoHim (Isaiah 55)

Actually yes they have thought they heard a calling, but they didn't. If they read scripture they'd realize it is not their place to teach over men. God has shown us how he does things.

This is what you are doing.


"I don't like this verse...hmmmm how can I find away around this"
"Ohhh i know! I'll just say this verse over here stating his ways are higher than ours, then I'll say what I think his ways are! and then whenever someone says something that disagrees with me, I can call them God, even though I'm acting like I know what God's way's are"


We are saying what GOD HAS ALREADY SAID. You are putting words in his mouth.

 

[tucksma]

God's ways are not hidden from us, he presents them to us IN THE BIBLE. Lean on his ways means DO WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS.