why do you need me to comment?
you said 7 was about paul before his conversion.
i said it is not.
.
This is not for you Zone, for you could never accept what I wirte, I know that
In the first three verses Paul gives an illustration from marriage of dying to the law
In verse 4 he says
So my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him that was raised from the dead in order that we might bear fruit for God
So Paul is telling the Christians they died to the law so that they might belong to Christ and bear fruit for God
So what does dying to the law mean? Well if we are under the law we must strive to obey the written law surely, and if we fail and constantly fail we will feel great guilt and condemnation, for
the law stands against us and can condemn us
verse 5
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death, but now by dying to what once bound us(the law) we have been relesaed from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the old way of the written code
So when we WERE controlled by the sinful nature the sinful passions in us were aroused by the law, BUT WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER IT
So why would the sinful passiions in us be aroused(made greater) by the law?
I have a grandson, he is two years old. There are six things in my computer room he must pot touch, one is the telephone. If I am not watching him and he can sneak into that room he goes straight for the things he must not touch. One day I was on my computer and he came in, stared at me and his hand hovered a couple of inches above the phone, almost daring me to say spomething to him. So why was he like this?
There is an allure, excitement in doing what we know is wrong, it is basic human nature. If my grandson had no rules(laws if you lioke) concern ing the things he must not touch, he would sometimes go to them but the allure would not be so great. We are like that with sin. We come to God and we know what is required from the Christian because of the good laws iof God, there is no other way, and sin/satan uses the good laws of Gods to arouse all kinds of sinful desires in us, as happened to Paul.
But if the law is taken away, sin/satan can no longer use the law to arouse all kinds of sinful passions in us.
verse 6But now, by dying to what once bound us WE HAVE BEEN RELEASED FROM THE LAW SO THAT WE SERVE IN THE NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT AND NOT IN THE OLD WAY OF THE WRITTEN CODE
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So the Christian dies to the law, therefore, and sin can only use the law to arouse sinful passions in a person if they are living under the law, not if they have died to it, or should I add make greater the allure to do wrong as previously mentioned.
verses 7-11 KJV
What shall we say then? Is the law sin?God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said. 'Thou shalt not covet
But sin, taking occassion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For withojut the law sinwas dead
For I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came , sin revived and I died
And the commandment which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death
For sin, tyaking occasion by the commandment deceived me, and by it slew me.
So, some believe this chapter is all about Paul as a Christian. Paul as a Christian died to the law, he tells us that we are enslaved to sin by the law, the sinful passions in us are aroused by the law. And here we have Paul telling us of the consequences in his own life when the commandment came
So Paul the Pharisee was not under the Ten Commandments?
The commandment did not come to Paul until he became a Christian?
So all manner of lust and concupiscence was not aroused in Paul by sin using the commandment until Paul became a Christian?
And Paul as a Christian who had died to the law was slain and put to death by the law?
I know some will find an answer but I am confident that most will see the absolute absurdity of such thin king
Paul is speaking of sin using the good and holy commandment of God to arouse all kinds of sinful [passions in us.
Can I repeat verse 5
For when we were controlled by the sinfull passions, THE SINFULL PASSIONS AROUSED BY THE LAW WERE AT WORK IN OUR BODIES SO THAT WE BORE FRUIT FPOR DEATH
In verses 7-11 Paul is telling us HOW sin used the law to arouse all kinds of sinful desires in him and to condemn him
But in verse six aftter telling us the sinful passions in us are aroused by the law Paul said he died to the
law.
In verse 12 Paul affirms that the law is Holy and Good and righhteous, but it was not that which was good that condemned him, but sin that used the commandemnt to condemn him
Now we come to verse 14 where many take great offence that Paul could not be speaking of his life but prior to becomingf a Christian, but as a Christian
We know that THE LAW is spiritual, but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin
So Paul is telling us here that he is sold as a slave to sin
So, is he speaking as a Christian? Or is he telling us of the consequences of when he strove to obey the written law/was under the law and therefore was not a Christian?
Don't you know that when ypou offer yourselves to someone to obey them as slaves you are slaves to the one whom you obey-WHETHER YOU ARE SLAVES TO SIN, WHICH LEADS TO DEATH, or to obediance that leads to life
1 Cor 6:16
So according to Paul's own words if he is speaking as a Christian in verse 14 of ch 7 he is doomed and heading for death
For I do not understand what I do, for what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate to do.
And if I do what I do not want to do I AGREE THAT THE LAW IS GOOD
As it is it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
verses 15-17
So, if some are right Paul as a Christian is doing what he does not want to do, but what he hates doing, notice he says that he agrees the law is good while this is going on.
So sin is in charge of Paul. He is doing clearly what he does not want to do.
But in Rom 6:14 Paul says
Sin shall not be our master for we are not under law but under grace
Sin is clearly Paul's master for it forces him to do what he does not want to do.
I know that nothing good lives in me that is in my sinful nature, for I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out
For what I do is not the good I want to do, no, but the evil I do not want to do, thjis I keep on doing
Now if I do what I dpo not want to do, it is no longer I who is doing it, but it is sin living in me that does it
verses 18-20
So are we saying that Paul as a Christian cannot do the good he desires to do?
Instead of doing the good he desires to do he instead does the evil things he does not want to do
Does this sound like someone who knows that sin is not his master, for he is not under law but under grace?
For in my inner being, I delighjt IN GOD'S LAW, but I see another law at work in the members of my body(verse 5), waging war against the law of my mind AND MAKING ME A PRISONER OF THE LAW OF SIN at work within my members
verses 22&23
So Paul here ius a prisoner of sin, and a slkave to sin, let me once again quote some verses of Paul's in pother chapters
For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace
Rom 6:14
Do we then nullify the law by this faith(grace) not at all! Rather we uphold the law
Rom 3:31
Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to lobney them as slaves you become a slave to the one you obney, whether you are slaves to sin which leads to death, or to obediance which leads to righteousness
1 Cor 6:16
Therefore brothjers we have an obligation-but it is not to the sinful nature. FOR IF YOU LIVE ACCORDING TO THE SINFUL NATURE YOU WILL DIE
But if by the spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the bnody you will live
Rom 8:12&13
Poor Paul, in Roms ch 7
he was a slave of sin and a prisoner of sin so he is doomed if we believe some
I could go on but I have written enough. Many will simply cast all this aside, they have to, because to them they just want to cling to the knowledge they believe they have striven to know and by great effort aquired
But I am confident that those led by the Holy Spirit will understand that Paul's torture here is concern ing striving to obey the written law and his dismal faluire to do so. He explained in verses 7-11 that the law condemned him though he strove to obey it, obviojusly it would leaver him in the flames of anguish he then spoke of later in the chapter
...nooooo....... but thank you.
