Daniel's 70 weeks correctly interpreted (in my opinion)

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Nov 23, 2013
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#61
But I just showed (in the links) where the word "firstfruit," in the Greek, is in the SINGULAR. (He is "firstfruit [singular] of those [plural] having fallen asleep"). This is not to say that He didn't take someone "with [G4862]" Him. Elsewhere (throughout the epistles) it tells precisely who... (and I'm referring to His "[ACTIVE] ascension" ON FF/His Resurrection Day; those "many" who were raised on that same day, specifically [we are told] went into Jerusalem… but He Himself was busy Elsewhere ;) )
Same Greek word is used below.

All translations below translate as plural because the word can be singular or plural depending on the context surrounding it.

Rev14-4
GRK: τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀπαρχὴ τῷ θεῷ
NAS: men as first fruits to God
KJV: among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God
INT: the men [as] firstfruits to God

The translators chose the word firstfruits here because the context of the verse was interpreted by men as being plural and in this case they got it right.

In the case of the verse we were discussing the KJV and NASB interpreted the verse correctly and used the word furstfruits as it should be because of the context surrounding the word.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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#62
"15 I will go and return to my place, till they [Israel] acknowledge their [Israel's] offence, and seek my face: in their [Israel's] affliction they [Israel] will seek me early [/earnestly].

I wish you would stop applying prophecies from the mid 8th century B.C. and applying them to today. Dispensationalists love to do this. I bet you think Isaiah 17 is still future too? Nope.

Hosea Ch. 5 and 6 are referring to the impending judgment on Israel (ephraim) and Judah. It was about the destruction of the 10 northern tribes going away into Assyria and the later captivity of Judah in Babylon. Hosea wrote around 750b.c. It's not about us but dispensationalists love to misapply these prophecies.

2 After two days will he revive us [Israel]: in the third day he will raise us [Israel] up, and we [Israel] shall live in his sight. [consider similar wording in Ezek37 and other parallels I've listed before]
This verse is probably a reference to Jesus and His resurrection. He is true Israel. Not the Jews. The same book of Hosea that you are misquoting proves that.

Hosea 11: 1, "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called My son." Hosea is talking about Jesus. Matthew makes this clear in his gospel when he quotes this verse in Matthew 2: 15 and says it's about Jesus.

Jesus is true Israel according to the Scriptures. The faithful Israelite.

Your quoting of Hosea 6: 2 and saying it is talking about the Jews and implying that: "2 days" = "2,000 years" is nothing but Scripture twisting. What justification do you have for that? You have none.

You can misquote Psalm 90: 4 which says, "For a thousand years in Your sight are like yesterday when it is past, and like a watch in the night." The verse makes it obvious that you cannot interpret it literally since 24 hours and 3 hours cannot both equal 1,000.

Try accepting what Scripture actually says instead of jamming it into your dispensationalism to try and make it fit. It never will because the Bible doesn't teach it.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#63
Same Greek word is used below.

All translations below translate as plural because the word can be singular or plural depending on the context surrounding it.

Rev14-4
GRK: τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀπαρχὴ τῷ θεῷ
NAS: men as first fruits to God
KJV: among men, [being] the firstfruits unto God
INT: the men [as] firstfruits to God

The translators chose the word firstfruits here because the context of the verse was interpreted by men as being plural and in this case they got it right.

In the case of the verse we were discussing the KJV and NASB interpreted the verse correctly and used the word furstfruits as it should be because of the context surrounding the word.
For the 144,000 (Rev14:4) the word is still "firstfruit [singular]" [see link below] (meaning, the "firstfruit" of a particular crop/harvest). I'm not saying that "firstfruit [singular]" does not ever involve multiple people. I'm just saying that "firsfruit [singular]" involves a singular harvest (of TWO separate harvests named in Lev23: one in verses 10-2 [Jesus fulfilled THIS "ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day," when He "[ACTIVELY] ascended" and then the other in verse 17 ;) [which some of the phrasing correlates with that of Rev14:4, as I pointed out; this, ON Shavuot/Pentecost (but Jesus "VISIBLY ascended" some 10 days BEFORE that ;) , Acts 1 )])

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/14-4.htm

And note that 1Cor15 says "firstfruit out from those having fallen asleep" whereas Rev14:4 states "redeemed out from men/anthropos, as firstfruit unto God and to the Lamb [Arnio]" (like the Lev23:17 "unto the Lord" phrase, of that second "harvest" [Shavuot/Pentecost]). Nothing really stating they physically "died" and were "resurrected" in Rev14, as I see it (as it is stated differently to that of how 1Cor15 is specifically phrased, as I'm pointing out).
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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#64
Well I checked it out. It would make sense, this way we could avoid creating a MASSIVE gap of two millennium, anyone got something to say about that? @delirious @others?

I stand by my original post in this thread. I think it is the correct interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks.

When you remove the 70th week to the future it contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#65
delirious, do you believe Psalm 72 is merely about Solomon? or prophetically about something else [also]?
 
Nov 18, 2018
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#66
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Daniel prays throughout Chapter 9 for the forgiveness of Israel’s sins as well as his own. Gabriel is sent to give him the answer to this prayer.

Daniel 9: 24-27 is poetic in its structure. Verse 24 sets up this poetic structure which continues down through verses 25-27. Looking at in the Hebrew makes this obvious in my opinion.

It revolves around “your people” and “your holy city” mentioned in verse 24. “Your people” is two words in Hebrew. “Your holy city” is three words in Hebrew. Gabriel mentions 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 weeks in verse 24.

The first 3 things have to do with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. All 3 of these things are also 2 words each in Hebrew just like “your people”.

The last 3 things are all 3 words each in Hebrew just like “your holy city”. This sets up the poetic structure of the prophecy which continues through verses 25-27.

So each verse has a “part A” and a “part B”. The first half of each verse is about “your people” and the second half of each verse is about “your holy city”.

We also see that the first half of each verse is dealing with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. This is tied to the Messiah who is mentioned explicitly in verse 25A and 26A and implied in verse 27A. The 70 weeks are tied to this figure because He accomplishes those 6 things Gabriel mentions in verse 24.

The second half of each verse is talking about “your holy city”. In 25B we see, “the street and wall shall be built in troubled times”. In 26B and 27B we read about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

It is here where many people err in understanding the prophecy in my opinion. They think that verses 26 and 27 are chronological and have a 2,000 year gap and counting. They are not chronological. They are the same event. Verse 26 is being retold in verse 27 giving more details. This is called recapitulation and happens all the time in prophetic passages in the Bible. To prove this is true let me give an example:

The seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are all describing the same event. It goes from the beginning all the way to the end and then starts over and retells it again with more details.

The sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl are all the same event which is the second coming of Christ. Rev 19: 17-21 as well as Rev 20: 7-10 are also describing the second coming of Christ. You have it retold or recapitulated 5 times in the book of Revelation. Also, the seven trumpets and seven bowls mirror each other very closely but give more details. More evidence of recapitulation. This happens many times in the Old Testament too. Ezekiel 39 is retelling Ezekiel 38. They are the same event. There are not two Gog and Magog wars.

The sixth seal describes in Rev 6: 12 that there is a “great earthquake” and in verse 14, “every mountain and island were moved out of its place”.

In the seventh bowl you get the same description. Rev 16: 18 says there was a “great earthquake” and in verse 20, “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found”. If a person insists these are not the same event but chronological you have every island and mountain moved out of their place twice. Twice? Seems a bit hard to believe.

These are the same events being recapitulated (or retold) with more details. You will also notice that Rev 11: 15-19, which describes the second coming of Christ at the seventh trumpet, immediately goes back to the beginning and Christ’s birth in Rev 12: 1 and following.

There are many more examples of prophecy in the Bible not being chronological but “retelling” the same events with more details. I believe this is also the case with Daniel 9: 26 and 27.

26A and 27A are the same event. Christ’s crucifixion. 26A says “after 69 weeks messiah shall be cut off”. 27A says “in the middle of the week (the 70th week) He shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease”. “After 69” and “70” are the same thing when the prophecy has a limit of 70 weeks. They are synonyms.

This is why Gabriel said that those 6 things would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. Not 42 weeks, or 57 weeks or 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another week. Gabriel said 70.

If you look closely at verses 26B and 27B they are also the same event. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

Some people teach that the 70th week is still future. This is not possible according to what Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan 9: 24. He says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

Some teach that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday and 5 days later Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. If that is true, Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks.

In that system He is crucified AFTER the 69th week has ended and before the 70th week has begun. This is not possible because Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

I mention this because many Christians are still looking for a “70th week” that begins when the Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. In my opinion this will never happen because the 70th week was when Christ was crucified.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some people will say that Jerusalem and the temple were not destroyed during the 70 weeks so your interpretation can’t be right either. They will say that it suffers the same problem as someone who has the 70th week still in the future. This is not true.

Gabriel says only 6 things will be accomplished for Daniel’s people and city WITHIN the 70 weeks. The destruction of the city and the temple is not one of those 6 things mentioned! Many people miss that.

I believe my interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy fits nicely and seems to have no problems that I can see.

Those that believe in a future 70th week have a fatal error in their interpretation. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame. If Jesus is crucified AFTER/OUTSIDE the first 69 weeks, and He is also not crucified WITHIN the 70th week since that is still future, then He is not crucified WITHIN the time frame of the 70 weeks.

That is not possible. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. One of those 6 things is “atoning for iniquity”. That is the gospel message. Christ must do that on the cross WITHIN the 70 weeks. Verses 26A and 27A tell you He does it in the middle of the 70th week.

Any interpretation that moves the 70th week to the future contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.

I offer my interpretation because I think it fits the prophecy and has no issues as far as I can tell.

To those who are still looking for a 7 year treaty between Antichrist and Israel, in my opinion, it will never happen. Daniel 9: 27 is the only verse they get that from but they have misinterpreted it.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
This is very detailed and you have put a lot of thought into this. It’s refreshing to see a Christ centered Dan 9 interpretation, somewhat rare these days although it’s the classical interpretation. I would suggest the 6 seals (why did God chose seals as the symbol?) summarize 6 ‘eras’ if you will of Earths’ future and the trumpets (why trumpets of all the musical instruments?) representing the details of the last seal and the climax of the spiritual battle prior to His 2nd coming while the vials represent the climax of God’s judgment...food for thought...
 
Nov 18, 2018
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#67
This is very detailed and you have put a lot of thought into this. It’s refreshing to see a Christ centered Dan 9 interpretation, somewhat rare these days although it’s the classical interpretation. I would suggest the 6 seals (why did God chose seals as the symbol?) summarize 6 ‘eras’ if you will of Earths’ future and the trumpets (why trumpets of all the musical instruments?) representing the details of the last seal and the climax of the spiritual battle prior to His 2nd coming while the vials represent the climax of God’s judgment...food for thought...
7 seals my bad :)
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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#68
This is very detailed and you have put a lot of thought into this. It’s refreshing to see a Christ centered Dan 9 interpretation, somewhat rare these days although it’s the classical interpretation. I would suggest the 6 seals (why did God chose seals as the symbol?) summarize 6 ‘eras’ if you will of Earths’ future and the trumpets (why trumpets of all the musical instruments?) representing the details of the last seal and the climax of the spiritual battle prior to His 2nd coming while the vials represent the climax of God’s judgment...food for thought...

Why do you say 7 eras? I'm guessing, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you hold a historicist view of Revelation.

For example, you believe the letters to the seven churches in Rev 2 & 3 are representative of the history of the church from the first coming all the way to the second coming of Christ. Is this your view or do I have it wrong?

I believe the correct way to interpret revelation is a modified Idealist approach from a historical redemptive paradigm. I know that is a mouthful so let me clarify what I mean as simply as I can.

I believe Revelation is a SYMBOLIC portrayal between God's kingdom, and it's ultimate triumph, over Satan's kingdom. Many of the things in Revelation don't happen LITERALLY but they do happen SPIRITUALLY.

I do believe the second coming is a real event along with the judgment and new heavens and earth. That's why I call it a modified idealist approach. The rest of the book is mostly spiritual.

I don't believe the seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological but recapitulate the same series of events 3 times and I would call your attention to the trumpets and bowls.

The 2nd and 3rd trumpets are very similar to the 2nd and 3rd bowls. The sea and waters

The 4th trumpet affects the heavens and the 4th bowl has men scorched with heat.

The 5th trumpet is locusts from the bottomless pit who inflict pain on men. The 5th bowl has the kingdom's of the beast full of darkness (sounds like a bottomless pit) and the men gnawed their tongues because of the pain.

The sixth trumpet has the angels bound at the river Euphrates with lots of armies. The sixth bowl has the great river Euphrates dried up to make way for Armageddon.

And finally the seventh trumpet, along with the seventh bowl (and sixth seal) are all describing the second coming of Christ.

The similarities are too strong in my opinion and it seems quite obvious, at least to me, that the seals, trumpets and bowls are retelling the same series of events 3 times.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#69
For the 144,000 (Rev14:4) the word is still "firstfruit [singular]" [see link below] (meaning, the "firstfruit" of a particular crop/harvest). I'm not saying that "firstfruit [singular]" does not ever involve multiple people. I'm just saying that "firsfruit [singular]" involves a singular harvest (of TWO separate harvests named in Lev23: one in verses 10-2 [Jesus fulfilled THIS "ON Firstfruit/His Resurrection Day," when He "[ACTIVELY] ascended" and then the other in verse 17 ;) [which some of the phrasing correlates with that of Rev14:4, as I pointed out; this, ON Shavuot/Pentecost (but Jesus "VISIBLY ascended" some 10 days BEFORE that ;) , Acts 1 )])

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/14-4.htm

And note that 1Cor15 says "firstfruit out from those having fallen asleep" whereas Rev14:4 states "redeemed out from men/anthropos, as firstfruit unto God and to the Lamb [Arnio]" (like the Lev23:17 "unto the Lord" phrase, of that second "harvest" [Shavuot/Pentecost]). Nothing really stating they physically "died" and were "resurrected" in Rev14, as I see it (as it is stated differently to that of how 1Cor15 is specifically phrased, as I'm pointing out).
Now you can see why I’m KJV only. 😎

Ok let’s say that the KJV was wrong and the verse should read “the firstfruit of them that have fallen asleep.

So translated that way the verse is saying that Jesus is the first to fall asleep of all those that have fallen asleep. Totally wrong!

Translated correctly the verse says Jesus the first fruits of them that slept.

This makes Jesus the first of those that have been raised from the dead.

Do you see the difference? One says the first to die and the other says the first to be raised from the dead.
 
Nov 18, 2018
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#70
Why do you say 7 eras? I'm guessing, and please correct me if I am wrong, that you hold a historicist view of Revelation.

For example, you believe the letters to the seven churches in Rev 2 & 3 are representative of the history of the church from the first coming all the way to the second coming of Christ. Is this your view or do I have it wrong?

I believe the correct way to interpret revelation is a modified Idealist approach from a historical redemptive paradigm. I know that is a mouthful so let me clarify what I mean as simply as I can.

I believe Revelation is a SYMBOLIC portrayal between God's kingdom, and it's ultimate triumph, over Satan's kingdom. Many of the things in Revelation don't happen LITERALLY but they do happen SPIRITUALLY.

I do believe the second coming is a real event along with the judgment and new heavens and earth. That's why I call it a modified idealist approach. The rest of the book is mostly spiritual.

I don't believe the seals, trumpets and bowls are chronological but recapitulate the same series of events 3 times and I would call your attention to the trumpets and bowls.

The 2nd and 3rd trumpets are very similar to the 2nd and 3rd bowls. The sea and waters

The 4th trumpet affects the heavens and the 4th bowl has men scorched with heat.

The 5th trumpet is locusts from the bottomless pit who inflict pain on men. The 5th bowl has the kingdom's of the beast full of darkness (sounds like a bottomless pit) and the men gnawed their tongues because of the pain.

The sixth trumpet has the angels bound at the river Euphrates with lots of armies. The sixth bowl has the great river Euphrates dried up to make way for Armageddon.

And finally the seventh trumpet, along with the seventh bowl (and sixth seal) are all describing the second coming of Christ.

The similarities are too strong in my opinion and it seems quite obvious, at least to me, that the seals, trumpets and bowls are retelling the same series of events 3 times.
I struggle to find the right description but Earth passes through 7 'ages', 'seasons' represented by 7 seals in sequential order. The 7 trumpets provide details to the last 7th seal and at the sound of the last 7th trumpet, the 2 witnesses and all true believers living for the Lord go to heaven and then the 7 vials occur sequentially afterwards, with the 7 vials also adding additional details to the last seal, but after the 7 trumpets.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#71
I struggle to find the right description but Earth passes through 7 'ages', 'seasons' represented by 7 seals in sequential order. The 7 trumpets provide details to the last 7th seal and at the sound of the last 7th trumpet, the 2 witnesses and all true believers living for the Lord go to heaven and then the 7 vials occur sequentially afterwards, with the 7 vials also adding additional details to the last seal, but after the 7 trumpets.
The seven seals are sealing a book and when the seals are removed the book is unsealed. I don’t see how they could represent ages.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#72
Now you can see why I’m KJV only. 😎

Ok let’s say that the KJV was wrong and the verse should read “the firstfruit of them that have fallen asleep.
No, it says, "Christ has been raised OUT FROM the dead, firstfruit [singular] OF those [plural] having fallen asleep." This sentence isn't saying when any of them DIED (people usually "die" at various points in time). So it would not be saying He's the "first" to die (as the rest of your post seemed to suggest it would be saying, per my post).

So translated that way the verse is saying that Jesus is the first to fall asleep of all those that have fallen asleep. Totally wrong!

Translated correctly the verse says Jesus the first fruits of them that slept.
No (on that first line), it wouldn't. ;)
 
Nov 18, 2018
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#73
The seven seals are sealing a book and when the seals are removed the book is unsealed. I don’t see how they could represent ages.
Yes true, seals do seal a book but seals also represent ownership, authority. Moreover the seals become global but don't seem to start out that way. Anyways inside each seal an event happens, with the first 4 seals have already happened after Revelation was written and in isolated areas, while the same 4 events in the first 4 seals will also happen later but globally. Everything in the 5th seal and beyond involves the supernatural, beginning with believers praying to God for intervention...
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#74
No, it says, "Christ has been raised OUT FROM the dead, firstfruit [singular] OF those [plural] having fallen asleep." This sentence isn't saying when any of them DIED (people usually "die" a various points in time). So it would not be saying He's the "first" to die (as the rest of your post seemed to suggest it would be saying, per my post).



No (on that first line), it wouldn't. ;)
New American Standard Bible
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep

The group or crop is those who are asleep. Christ is the firstfruit of those who are what.... asleep.
I’m not going to argue over grammar, it is what is.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#75
Yes true, seals do seal a book but seals also represent ownership, authority. Moreover the seals become global but don't seem to start out that way. Anyways inside each seal an event happens, with the first 4 seals have already happened after Revelation was written and in isolated areas, while the same 4 events in the first 4 seals will also happen later but globally. Everything in the 5th seal and beyond involves the supernatural, beginning with believers praying to God for intervention...
But the Bible tells us it’s a book sealed with seven seals.

Rev 5:1 (KJV) And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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#76
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
The first problem is that, Christ was not crucified during the 70th week, but at the end of the 69th week, i.e. week of years.

The seventy seven year periods are divided into three sections, as follows:

Seven 7 year periods = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

Sixty two 7 year periods
= totaling sixty nine seven year periods, which at the end of the Messiah was crucified

One seven year period
= the fulfillment of the seventieth seven year period, which will be initiated by the prince to come

Below is how the scripture is stated:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing"

7 x 7 = 49 years

62 x 7 = 434 years

Total = 69 sevens or 483 years at the end of which the Messiah was cut off

The last seven is years is described as follows:

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

The first thing to take notice of is who is the "he" referring to in verse above. Grammatically speaking, we have to go back to the last person who was mentioned, which "the prince of the people" found in verse 26. This is not Jesus, but that ruler, the antichrist who is to come.

Secondly, none of the prophesies of verse 27 have been fulfilled, as revealed below:

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 in Matt.24:15, there was approximately 37 years, give or take a few years until the temple was destroyed. During that time no seven year period was initiated, the sacrifices and offerings were not stopped until the temple was destroyed. No desolation of Israel has occurred where they flee from Judea to the mountains where God is to care for them for 1260 days, which by the way comes to its completion when Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

And thirdly, the last part of verse 27 says, "until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him,” which is referring to when that prince, the antichrist, is cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as described in Rev.19:20. Paul spoke about the same person and his destruction when he said:

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival" - 2 Thess.2:8

And one of the biggest problems that you and others have with your interpretation is the following:

"Seventy weeksc are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

None of the above emboldened in black has been fulfilled, as up till this day the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as their messiah and therefore are still in their sins. Everlasting righteousness has not been fulfilled, vision and prophesies have not been sealed up, i.e. there has not been an end made to them., as there are yet many prophesies yet to be fulfilled. And lastly, the "Most Holy Place," i.e. the holy of holies, which was that inner room that only the high priest as allowed to enter and that only once a year and not without blood, has not existed since the destruction of the temple. Therefore, what is in view here, is the millennial temple which will be erected during at the beginning of Christ's thousand year kingdom and which is described in detail in Ezekiel chapters 40-48.

You and others hold to this interpretation that the entire seventy seven year periods have already taken place and that because you cannot conceive of God putting a hold on the last seven years in order to meet its fulfillment in conjunction with the time of His wrath and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Yet, we have other scriptures that demonstrate prophecies with time gaps in their fulfillment.

After the Messiah was cut off, i.e. crucified at the end of the 69th seven, God put a hold on the last seven and began to build the church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-17, the Lord will descend and gather the church, dead and living, taking us back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. Once the church has been removed, the shortly afterwards, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel, where that prince, the antichrist will establish his seven year covenant with the many, which will allow Israel to build her temple. During which time God will be pouring out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. And we all know that in the middle of the seven that antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings that Israel will have been making to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple.

That is the truth of that last seven year period, which is coming quickly.
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#77
The first problem is that, Christ was not crucified during the 70th week, but at the end of the 69th week, i.e. week of years.

The seventy seven year periods are divided into three sections, as follows:

Seven 7 year periods = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

Sixty two 7 year periods = totaling sixty nine seven year periods, which at the end of the Messiah was crucified

One seven year period = the fulfillment of the seventieth seven year period, which will be initiated by the prince to come

Below is how the scripture is stated:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing"

7 x 7 = 49 years

62 x 7 = 434 years

Total = 69 sevens or 483 years at the end of which the Messiah was cut off

The last seven is years is described as follows:

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

The first thing to take notice of is who is the "he" referring to in verse above. Grammatically speaking, we have to go back to the last person who was mentioned, which "the prince of the people" found in verse 26. This is not Jesus, but that ruler, the antichrist who is to come.

Secondly, none of the prophesies of verse 27 have been fulfilled, as revealed below:

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 in Matt.24:15, there was approximately 37 years, give or take a few years until the temple was destroyed. During that time no seven year period was initiated, the sacrifices and offerings were not stopped until the temple was destroyed. No desolation of Israel has occurred where they flee from Judea to the mountains where God is to care for them for 1260 days, which by the way comes to its completion when Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

And thirdly, the last part of verse 27 says, "until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him,” which is referring to when that prince, the antichrist, is cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as described in Rev.19:20. Paul spoke about the same person and his destruction when he said:

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival" - 2 Thess.2:8

And one of the biggest problems that you and others have with your interpretation is the following:

"Seventy weeksc are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

None of the above emboldened in black has been fulfilled, as up till this day the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as their messiah and therefore are still in their sins. Everlasting righteousness has not been fulfilled, vision and prophesies have not been sealed up, i.e. there has not been an end made to them., as there are yet many prophesies yet to be fulfilled. And lastly, the "Most Holy Place," i.e. the holy of holies, which was that inner room that only the high priest as allowed to enter and that only once a year and not without blood, has not existed since the destruction of the temple. Therefore, what is in view here, is the millennial temple which will be erected during at the beginning of Christ's thousand year kingdom and which is described in detail in Ezekiel chapters 40-48.

You and others hold to this interpretation that the entire seventy seven year periods have already taken place and that because you cannot conceive of God putting a hold on the last seven years in order to meet its fulfillment in conjunction with the time of His wrath and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Yet, we have other scriptures that demonstrate prophecies with time gaps in their fulfillment.

After the Messiah was cut off, i.e. crucified at the end of the 69th seven, God put a hold on the last seven and began to build the church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-17, the Lord will descend and gather the church, dead and living, taking us back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. Once the church has been removed, the shortly afterwards, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel, where that prince, the antichrist will establish his seven year covenant with the many, which will allow Israel to build her temple. During which time God will be pouring out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. And we all know that in the middle of the seven that antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings that Israel will have been making to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple.

That is the truth of that last seven year period, which is coming quickly.
And all this time I thought Christ reconciled us at the cross. Since this hasn’t happened yet does that mean this verse is wrong.

Rom 5:10 (KJV) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
 
Nov 18, 2018
88
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#78
The first problem is that, Christ was not crucified during the 70th week, but at the end of the 69th week, i.e. week of years.

The seventy seven year periods are divided into three sections, as follows:

Seven 7 year periods = Restore and rebuild Jerusalem

Sixty two 7 year periods = totaling sixty nine seven year periods, which at the end of the Messiah was crucified

One seven year period = the fulfillment of the seventieth seven year period, which will be initiated by the prince to come

Below is how the scripture is stated:

"Then after the sixty-two weeks, the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing"

7 x 7 = 49 years

62 x 7 = 434 years

Total = 69 sevens or 483 years at the end of which the Messiah was cut off

The last seven is years is described as follows:

"And he will confirm a covenant with many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of the temple will come the abomination that causes desolation, until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him.”

The first thing to take notice of is who is the "he" referring to in verse above. Grammatically speaking, we have to go back to the last person who was mentioned, which "the prince of the people" found in verse 26. This is not Jesus, but that ruler, the antichrist who is to come.

Secondly, none of the prophesies of verse 27 have been fulfilled, as revealed below:

From the time that Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 in Matt.24:15, there was approximately 37 years, give or take a few years until the temple was destroyed. During that time no seven year period was initiated, the sacrifices and offerings were not stopped until the temple was destroyed. No desolation of Israel has occurred where they flee from Judea to the mountains where God is to care for them for 1260 days, which by the way comes to its completion when Christ returns to the earth to end the age.

And thirdly, the last part of verse 27 says, "until the decreed destruction is poured out upon him,” which is referring to when that prince, the antichrist, is cast into the lake of fire when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, as described in Rev.19:20. Paul spoke about the same person and his destruction when he said:

"And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and abolish by the majesty of His arrival" - 2 Thess.2:8

And one of the biggest problems that you and others have with your interpretation is the following:

"Seventy weeksc are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

None of the above emboldened in black has been fulfilled, as up till this day the nation Israel does not recognize Jesus as their messiah and therefore are still in their sins. Everlasting righteousness has not been fulfilled, vision and prophesies have not been sealed up, i.e. there has not been an end made to them., as there are yet many prophesies yet to be fulfilled. And lastly, the "Most Holy Place," i.e. the holy of holies, which was that inner room that only the high priest as allowed to enter and that only once a year and not without blood, has not existed since the destruction of the temple. Therefore, what is in view here, is the millennial temple which will be erected during at the beginning of Christ's thousand year kingdom and which is described in detail in Ezekiel chapters 40-48.

You and others hold to this interpretation that the entire seventy seven year periods have already taken place and that because you cannot conceive of God putting a hold on the last seven years in order to meet its fulfillment in conjunction with the time of His wrath and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. Yet, we have other scriptures that demonstrate prophecies with time gaps in their fulfillment.

After the Messiah was cut off, i.e. crucified at the end of the 69th seven, God put a hold on the last seven and began to build the church, which is still in the process of being built. Once the church has been completed, in fulfillment of John 14:1-3 and 1 Thess.4:13-17, the Lord will descend and gather the church, dead and living, taking us back to the Father's house to those places that He prepared for us. Once the church has been removed, the shortly afterwards, God will pick up right where He left off with Israel, where that prince, the antichrist will establish his seven year covenant with the many, which will allow Israel to build her temple. During which time God will be pouring out His wrath upon a Christ rejecting world via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. And we all know that in the middle of the seven that antichrist will cause the sacrifices and offerings that Israel will have been making to cease and will set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple.

That is the truth of that last seven year period, which is coming quickly.
It's very trendy to detatch the 70th week and make it 7 years at some point in the future, but as all know this trend is based only on one interpretation of one verse in the Bible. Revelation, a book with the details of future events, and a book chock full of 7s, has no 7 years anywhere. Besides the 3rd temple is already here (John 2:19-21). The Jews may build another structure one day, God has unfinished business with the Jews, but Christ's sacrifice makes any new structure labeled as a 'temple' irrevelant.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
113
#79
"Seventy weeksc are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Of course the above have been fulfilled, the atonement has been made, Jesus brought in everlasting righteousness with his death, his resurrection culminated in anointing the holy place with his own blood,

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
#80
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Daniel prays throughout Chapter 9 for the forgiveness of Israel’s sins as well as his own. Gabriel is sent to give him the answer to this prayer.

Daniel 9: 24-27 is poetic in its structure. Verse 24 sets up this poetic structure which continues down through verses 25-27. Looking at in the Hebrew makes this obvious in my opinion.

It revolves around “your people” and “your holy city” mentioned in verse 24. “Your people” is two words in Hebrew. “Your holy city” is three words in Hebrew. Gabriel mentions 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 weeks in verse 24.

The first 3 things have to do with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. All 3 of these things are also 2 words each in Hebrew just like “your people”.

The last 3 things are all 3 words each in Hebrew just like “your holy city”. This sets up the poetic structure of the prophecy which continues through verses 25-27.

So each verse has a “part A” and a “part B”. The first half of each verse is about “your people” and the second half of each verse is about “your holy city”.

We also see that the first half of each verse is dealing with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. This is tied to the Messiah who is mentioned explicitly in verse 25A and 26A and implied in verse 27A. The 70 weeks are tied to this figure because He accomplishes those 6 things Gabriel mentions in verse 24.

The second half of each verse is talking about “your holy city”. In 25B we see, “the street and wall shall be built in troubled times”. In 26B and 27B we read about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

It is here where many people err in understanding the prophecy in my opinion. They think that verses 26 and 27 are chronological and have a 2,000 year gap and counting. They are not chronological. They are the same event. Verse 26 is being retold in verse 27 giving more details. This is called recapitulation and happens all the time in prophetic passages in the Bible. To prove this is true let me give an example:

The seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are all describing the same event. It goes from the beginning all the way to the end and then starts over and retells it again with more details.

The sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl are all the same event which is the second coming of Christ. Rev 19: 17-21 as well as Rev 20: 7-10 are also describing the second coming of Christ. You have it retold or recapitulated 5 times in the book of Revelation. Also, the seven trumpets and seven bowls mirror each other very closely but give more details. More evidence of recapitulation. This happens many times in the Old Testament too. Ezekiel 39 is retelling Ezekiel 38. They are the same event. There are not two Gog and Magog wars.

The sixth seal describes in Rev 6: 12 that there is a “great earthquake” and in verse 14, “every mountain and island were moved out of its place”.

In the seventh bowl you get the same description. Rev 16: 18 says there was a “great earthquake” and in verse 20, “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found”. If a person insists these are not the same event but chronological you have every island and mountain moved out of their place twice. Twice? Seems a bit hard to believe.

These are the same events being recapitulated (or retold) with more details. You will also notice that Rev 11: 15-19, which describes the second coming of Christ at the seventh trumpet, immediately goes back to the beginning and Christ’s birth in Rev 12: 1 and following.

There are many more examples of prophecy in the Bible not being chronological but “retelling” the same events with more details. I believe this is also the case with Daniel 9: 26 and 27.

26A and 27A are the same event. Christ’s crucifixion. 26A says “after 69 weeks messiah shall be cut off”. 27A says “in the middle of the week (the 70th week) He shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease”. “After 69” and “70” are the same thing when the prophecy has a limit of 70 weeks. They are synonyms.

This is why Gabriel said that those 6 things would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. Not 42 weeks, or 57 weeks or 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another week. Gabriel said 70.

If you look closely at verses 26B and 27B they are also the same event. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

Some people teach that the 70th week is still future. This is not possible according to what Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan 9: 24. He says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

Some teach that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday and 5 days later Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. If that is true, Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks.

In that system He is crucified AFTER the 69th week has ended and before the 70th week has begun. This is not possible because Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

I mention this because many Christians are still looking for a “70th week” that begins when the Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. In my opinion this will never happen because the 70th week was when Christ was crucified.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some people will say that Jerusalem and the temple were not destroyed during the 70 weeks so your interpretation can’t be right either. They will say that it suffers the same problem as someone who has the 70th week still in the future. This is not true.

Gabriel says only 6 things will be accomplished for Daniel’s people and city WITHIN the 70 weeks. The destruction of the city and the temple is not one of those 6 things mentioned! Many people miss that.

I believe my interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy fits nicely and seems to have no problems that I can see.

Those that believe in a future 70th week have a fatal error in their interpretation. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame. If Jesus is crucified AFTER/OUTSIDE the first 69 weeks, and He is also not crucified WITHIN the 70th week since that is still future, then He is not crucified WITHIN the time frame of the 70 weeks.

That is not possible. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. One of those 6 things is “atoning for iniquity”. That is the gospel message. Christ must do that on the cross WITHIN the 70 weeks. Verses 26A and 27A tell you He does it in the middle of the 70th week.

Any interpretation that moves the 70th week to the future contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.

I offer my interpretation because I think it fits the prophecy and has no issues as far as I can tell.

To those who are still looking for a 7 year treaty between Antichrist and Israel, in my opinion, it will never happen. Daniel 9: 27 is the only verse they get that from but they have misinterpreted it.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
I get so tired of those pontificating on Revelation and especially Daniel. They ignore that they cover end times and are written symbolically. Therefore both are subject to Daniel 12:4 and 9. So tell me oh great seer how you can accurately state what either book states about the end times.

Daniel 12 NIV - Sealed book until end times
4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.