DECEMBER 25?

[LaurenTM]

No, Paul is not a liar. but no matter how much truth you speak - it will not benefit if you reject it or mis-apply it. To me it is obvious that Paul was defending his own following Converts in their new teaching and not those still in their old ways.

groups like Hebrew Roots MAKE Jesus a liar...they twist His words and put JESUS behind the law

you do exactly what Paul wrote about in Galatians

so, who has bewitched these law groups?

they are bewitched according to Paul...now the only way that can be ignored, is to deny, twist or just denounce

which do you do?

 

[beta]

do you allow the word of God to speak to your heart, your soul, your spirit?

or do you just try to understand with your mind what is SPIRITUALLY discerned?

the law is all about physical acts...it does not save

the devil and all his works were not defeated until Christ died

no one is anything at all with Jesus Christ the Son of God

God is speaking to you and everyone else here right now...simply by His word

If you are trying to teach me that all physical acts = commandments contained in ordinances Eph 2v15, were abolished, I have known that since you were a mere Baby. Now tell me something I don't know ! (and yes, I spotted your error)

 

[LaurenTM]

If you are trying to teach me that all physical acts = commandments contained in ordinances Eph 2v15, were abolished, I have known that since you were a mere Baby. Now tell me something I don't know ! (and yes, I spotted your error)

1. I am not teaching

2. everything I am saying can be found in the New Testament and some in the Old

3. I made no error...the error is your interpretation of it

4. what do you actually believe? keep a partial law? good deeds are required for salvation? do you have saving faith in Christ or do you believe you need to ADD to the completed work of Christ?

5. instead of trying to find fault with me, tell us what you actually believe

now what is your argument against Paul?

 

[beta]

groups like Hebrew Roots MAKE Jesus a liar...they twist His words and put JESUS behind the law

you do exactly what Paul wrote about in Galatians

so, who has bewitched these law groups?

they are bewitched according to Paul...now the only way that can be ignored, is to deny, twist or just denounce

which do you do?

IF I knew what you were talking about I might be able to answer. Hebrew Roots ? who are they ?
I know there are people who keep the Commandments of God...
and there are people who do not !

 

[KohenMatt]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day:

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Christ's.

Is this teaching also "out of context" as you have insisted on other properly quoted vers? Ok, now reach hard.

"Let no man judge you....in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day...."

is a 2-way street. Something that some folks on both sides of the Sabbath/Holy day discussion need to remember.

 

[KohenMatt]

groups like Hebrew Roots MAKE Jesus a liar...they twist His words and put JESUS behind the law....

so, who has bewitched these law groups?

they are bewitched according to Paul...now the only way that can be ignored, is to deny, twist or just denounce

which do you do?

I wish people (and in this case you) would be careful to not lump all Hebrew Roots folks into beliefs like this. It simply is not the case, and if you did a poll of 100 people who'd call themselves Hebrew Roots folks, very few would hold the view that you're talking about, or anything remotely close to it.

And I'm an example of following Jesus as the Son of God, yay, God Himself. The law plays an important role (in it's proper order) in the life of a New Testament believer. But that statement doesn't negate the work of our Messiah.

 

[LaurenTM]

right now, Jonathan Bernis is on TV and telling the Christians he will send them a prayer shawl and or a shofar if they will send him money so he can stay on the air and keep mixing up the word with tokens and little gifts so that you 'buy' into it

I really have nothing at all against anyone who wants to observe whatever, but not in the place of saving faith in Christ


wearing a 'prayer shawl' will not make you more holy (only God is holy and we are ONLY holy IN Christ...that is where God sees us and if you take yourself out of that place and try to follow the law, or parts of the law THINKING you are becoming Jewish or more saved, you place yourself under a curse the Bible states

again, if you wish to observe anything and you have saving faith in Christ and you realize that nothing you do makes you acceptable in the eyes of our HOLY God except for your faith in HIS Son, the go for it...but no one really needs to do those things

it is evil, IMO, how people try to capitalize on the ignorance and superstitions of those who will not get into the word for themselves

 

[Grace777x70]

"Let no man judge you....in respect of a feast day or a new moon or a sabbath day...."

is a 2-way street. Something that some folks on both sides of the Sabbath/Holy day discussion need to remember.

I agree 100%.....but if some say that we are not obeying God because we don't observe the Sabbath or the feasts as outlined in the Law of Moses. That is a perversion of the gospel of the grace of Christ and it is a sign that there are Judaizers in our midst. This needs to be jumped on vehemently to expose it for what it really is.

If some want to observe things that are in the Law - then go for it! I can certainly understand real Jews doing this as that is a part of their heritage and if some gentiles want do this as well - that is their own business too.

Personally I love to hear about the things in the Law and how Christ has been the fulfillment of them. I read the Law and the Old Testament to see Jesus in them - not for laws to follow.

 

[beta]

1. I am not teaching

2. everything I am saying can be found in the New Testament and some in the Old

3. I made no error...the error is your interpretation of it

4. what do you actually believe? keep a partial law? good deeds are required for salvation? do you have saving faith in Christ or do you believe you need to ADD to the completed work of Christ?

5. instead of trying to find fault with me, tell us what you actually believe

now what is your argument against Paul?

No, you are not teaching...you are interrogating, or is it the inquisition ?
seems you are finding plenty fault with me....but that is ok ?!
who says I have an argument against Paul ? because some of his writings are hard to understand ?
is that my imagination or scripture ?

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

you don't have a clue

LOL so share with us ooh Enlightened one.

JESUS Himself appointed Paul an Apostle...JESUS Himself stopped Paul in his tracks and Paul was converted

have you had that experience?

have you met Jesus face to face and have you been changed in your spirit?

are you filled with the Holy Spirit and do you confess Jesus Christ is Lord?

I was also blinded by the church for a long time but by the grace of God I now know the truth about cheap grace. Just like Paul was also blinded by religion.

I don't have to read or study one single thing to be saved...I just have to believe in my heart and confess with my mouth

My confession is good enough for God and He enables me to live for Him

now what is your point exactly?

I defend the gospel of the NT...do you?

Mike is spreading a false gospel...does not matter if he is a nice guy and does not matter if people think I am not nice because I don't mince words

there is only ONE sacrifice acceptable to God and it is not the sacrifices made by those who have the very mistaken idea they have found hidden truths

So because you believe you are saved that opens the door for you to judge Mike? LOL there is a difference between mincing words and just plain rude. You can decide where you fit into that spectrum. You can't be judge, jury and executioner for people. Leave that to God. We will all face Him one day

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

1. I am not teaching

I agree, you are not teaching but you are accusing.

 

[LaurenTM]

I wish people (and in this case you) would be careful to not lump all Hebrew Roots folks into beliefs like this. It simply is not the case, and if you did a poll of 100 people who'd call themselves Hebrew Roots folks, very few would hold the view that you're talking about, or anything remotely close to it.

And I'm an example of following Jesus as the Son of God, yay, God Himself. The law plays an important role (in it's proper order) in the life of a New Testament believer. But that statement doesn't negate the work of our Messiah.

you are right...but the very name suggests otherwise

and you are also right in stating how the different groups differ and even argue

IMO, it is best to not even get involved in those groups

I myself was a part of Messianic congregation for about two years and I liked it so much! I really did! I even called Jesus Yahshua because I was told I might offend some members...I was part of the leadership (music/worship) and therefore people looked up to me...I sang in Hebrew and English...some very beautiful songs...and even wrote a small musical presentation of the rebuilding of the wall with Nehemiah and tied that into belief in Christ and how He rebuilds us...that story of Nehemiah is a wonderful story! a wonderful example of living faith in God and the dedication of one man to do what is right! in spite of all the naysayers and scoffers

know what happened? there was a Jewish synagogue across the street from where we met on Saturdays (Sabbath, right?) in the sanctuary of a church that we rented, and some of the congregation in the Messianic group decided to take it across the street and started actually arguing with the Jewish folk there!

someone called the news and we had a reporter with a camera man come to a service...I sat it out...I did not participate...I did not see how arguing with a synagogue was going to do any good

it all went south...there was a split and everyone suffered

so, I do know a little about these things...I have known other Jewish people who have believed in Jesus as their Messiah and I truly love their company

they are indeed a special people and when they accept Jesus, they are so inspiring!

But again, these are JEWISH by birth...true Jews...not make believe ones

I grew up around many Jewish people...went to a High School where about 50% of the population was Jewish and I have worked for Jewish companies...Montreal has a very large Jewish population

so, I'm not exactly ignorant of all things Jewish, but the point is, Jesus is God's sin offering

 

[LaurenTM]

I agree, you are not teaching but you are accusing.

all you seem to want to do is be right

you are wrong

I expect God hears a person who has saving faith in Christ long before He hears that shofar in your avie

ignorance is no excuse for denying Christ is the final sin offering

there are no more

I don't care for scoffers and you have now appeared to be a scoffer, so I won't be answering you any further

 

[FreeNChrist]

I wish people (and in this case you) would be careful to not lump all Hebrew Roots folks into beliefs like this. It simply is not the case, and if you did a poll of 100 people who'd call themselves Hebrew Roots folks, very few would hold the view that you're talking about, or anything remotely close to it.

And I'm an example of following Jesus as the Son of God, yay, God Himself. The law plays an important role (in it's proper order) in the life of a New Testament believer. But that statement doesn't negate the work of our Messiah.

That, right there, is the problem with HRM, and it is the one thing shared by all the different flavors of it. And yes it does negate the work of Jesus Christ.

 

[LaurenTM]

No, you are not teaching...you are interrogating, or is it the inquisition ?
seems you are finding plenty fault with me....but that is ok ?!
who says I have an argument against Paul ? because some of his writings are hard to understand ?
is that my imagination or scripture ?

can't answer the questions?

constant deflection is what seems to go on when law keepers or half law keepers are asked any questions about what they believe

however, they CONSTANTLY demand answers from Christians

guess I will no longer answer you either since you cannot be civil

 

[Grace777x70]

Without a doubt - disciplemike is perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ by constantly trying to get Christians to go back to the law of Moses.

He says that if a Christian is NOT observing the Sabbath or the feasts as is in the Law of Moses - we are not obeying God's commandments. That is a Judaizer spirit which Paul stood vehemently against as it nullifies the grace of God in our lives.

Make no mistake about it - this is an anti-Christ belief system. Paul didn't say that in the last days people would be anti-God - he said they would be anti-Christ. Big difference.

Judaizers are all for "God" but they deny the Lord Jesus Christ's work and choose to live by the law. ( well, not the real Law - just a watered down version of it )

Paul said that he would not stand for this perversion of the gospel for even one hour so that the truth might remain with us. Gal. 2:3-5.

Christians should be on Jewish forums telling them that their Messiah has already come. Instead disciplemike is on Christian forums trying to get Christians to desert Christ ( Ga;. 1:6 ) for going back to the law of Moses for life and living.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

all you seem to want to do is be right

you are wrong

I expect God hears a person who has saving faith in Christ long before He hears that shofar in your avie

ignorance is no excuse for denying Christ is the final sin offering

there are no more

I don't care for scoffers and you have now appeared to be a scoffer, so I won't be answering you any further

Well I guess then this conversation is over

 

[Grace777x70]

Originally Posted by KohenMatt

I wish people (and in this case you) would be careful to not lump all Hebrew Roots folks into beliefs like this. It simply is not the case, and if you did a poll of 100 people who'd call themselves Hebrew Roots folks, very few would hold the view that you're talking about, or anything remotely close to it.

And I'm an example of following Jesus as the Son of God, yay, God Himself. The law plays an important role (in it's proper order) in the life of a New Testament believer. But that statement doesn't negate the work of our Messiah.

That, right there, is the problem with HRM, and it is the one thing shared by all the different flavors of it. And yes it does negate the work of Jesus Christ.

I agree with the post that says the Law has a role in a believers life and it's important to know that because we are now in Christ - we have died to the law of Moses, we have been released from the Law of Moses and we are not under the Law of Moses.

Without knowing these truths we will be constantly watering down both the law and the work of Christ to make a religion of our own.

We will be nullifying the Law's job to fully bring us to Christ and we will be nullifying the grace of Christ for trying to now live by the law instead of total dependence on His life in us.

 

[PennEd]

Without a doubt - disciplemike is perverting the gospel of the grace of Christ by constantly trying to get Christians to go back to the law of Moses.

He says that if a Christian is NOT observing the Sabbath or the feasts as is in the Law of Moses - we are not obeying God's commandments. That is a Judaizer spirit which Paul stood vehemently against as it nullifies the grace of God in our lives.

Make no mistake about it - this is an anti-Christ belief system. Paul didn't say that in the last days people would be anti-God - he said they would be anti-Christ. Big difference.

Judaizers are all for "God" but they deny the Lord Jesus Christ's work and choose to live by the law. ( well, not the real Law - just a watered down version of it )

Paul said that he would not stand for this perversion of the gospel for even one hour so that the truth might remain with us. Gal. 2:3-5.

Christians should be on Jewish forums telling them that their Messiah has already come. Instead disciplemike is on Christian forums trying to get Christians to desert Christ ( Ga;. 1:6 ) for going back to the law of Moses for life and living.

You know, this really the key to virtually ALL of Mike's posts.

So I asked him what the CONSEQUENCES were for Christians who do NOT follow the Law and observe Sabbaths and Holy Days.

His answer was very telling. He DID NOT come right out and say that they were lost and God would condemn them. He said he DIDN'T KNOW what the consequences were.

Now either he knew that to say Christians were lost for not following the Law would be anathema and NO ONE would ever bother reading his mixed gospel again, or he truly doesn't know, which validates the point of those who say that there IS NO consequence regarding Salvation when it comes to SOLELY trusting Jesus for Salvation.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I agree with the post that says the Law has a role in a believers life and it's important to know that because we are now in Christ - we have died to the law of Moses, we have been released from the Law of Moses and we are not under the Law of Moses.

Without knowing these truths we will be constantly watering down both the law and the work of Christ to make a religion of our own.

We will be nullifying the Law's job to fully bring us to Christ and we will be nullifying the grace of Christ for trying to now live by the law instead of total dependence on His life in us.

This is great, but what is the role of the law then. Is it there for us to get an interesting history lesson and give our condolences to the Jews for being judged by it?

There is a difference between grace and cheap grace, just like there is a difference between keeping the law because you are obedient to the word of God and keeping the law for salvation.