Did Jesus fail????
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E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
The two highlighted comments you wrote appose each other.
If you can not keep salvation by earning it, then you can never lose it, If you can lose it, Whatever you did (or did not do) which caused you to lose it, was a price you had to pay to earn it.
My opinion - if you want to "bash" someone, you should do the research yourself - get it from the "horse's own mouth".
This second hand shortcutting of copying and pasting what someone else says can lead to misidentifying the context and you never know if the person who wrote the original post was actually telling the truth or not! You can find garbage written about almost every public figure if you want to find it!
Liar Liar pants on fire, it was not proven to be in error.
I in no way changed or falsified Joseph Princes quote in the OP, as a matter of fact it has already been proven that my quote in the OP was word for word from His Book, which proof Willie also provided. Look at post #121 and compare the words of Joseph Prince in my quote with His book shown here in Willies quote---->>>And now my quote in the OP---->>>
I did not change or falsify any of Joseph Princes words as these liars, slanderers, and false accusers are trying to suggest. They have proven themselves to be nothing more than liars and false accusers who never provide any proof of their false statements. But I just provided proof (again) that they are liars. Prove all things people, don't take a well known liars word for it.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Initial salvation, there is no such thing, we are saved or we are not saved, There is no inbetween.
Eph 1, paul tells us that God has given us
1. blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ (God has given us everything there is under heaven, there is nothing more God can give us, everything he has is already ours. )
2. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (before the earth was created, God chose those who would be in Christ that they should be holy and blameless before God, so if he chose us before we were saved. He is not going to "unchose" us after we are saved. To unchose us would be to admit, he made a mistake chosing us to begin with.
3. having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. (God before time began, predestines us to be adopted as his son, and to be made acceptable to him, in christ Jesus.. Again, If God predestines us before time began, He is not going to unpredestine us after we are saved, GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES. )
4. [SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace (In Christ, we have been redeemed completely, according to the riches of Gods grace, which is infinite (unending) Gods grace will never run out. so Gods forgiveness will never stop)
What brought all this about? Who did God predestine? Who did God chose? WHo did God give all his inheritance of everything he had? Who did God give redemption and promise to continue too forgive as long as his grace was able?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Those who have (or in the aspect of predestination, those who God knew would in the future) HAVE FAITH IN THE GOSPEL. the WORD OF TRUTH.
They are not only given all the things in the first 10 verses, But they are also given the HS, who is a pledge to their right of being called children of God (see also John 1, [SUP]12[/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: )
and how long was this pledge to last?
until we sinned to much?
Until we left the church?
Until we lost faith? (Even when we are faithless, he is faithful, he can not deny himself 2 tim 2: 13)
no, none of these, We are sealed by the HS, who is the guarantee of our inheritance (all things under heaven) until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. or in other words, the day we are ressurected, and our redemption is fulfilled.
so no, we can not lose salvation, No way, no how. Anyone who says we can, Calls God a liar. Makes God out to be a God who makes mistakes (he has to unchose and un predestine and unseal us) and makes salvation based on their own works of righteousness. Not Gods.
Eph 1, paul tells us that God has given us
1. blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ (God has given us everything there is under heaven, there is nothing more God can give us, everything he has is already ours. )
2. just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, (before the earth was created, God chose those who would be in Christ that they should be holy and blameless before God, so if he chose us before we were saved. He is not going to "unchose" us after we are saved. To unchose us would be to admit, he made a mistake chosing us to begin with.
3. having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, [SUP]6 [/SUP]to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made us accepted in the Beloved. (God before time began, predestines us to be adopted as his son, and to be made acceptable to him, in christ Jesus.. Again, If God predestines us before time began, He is not going to unpredestine us after we are saved, GOD DOES NOT MAKE MISTAKES. )
4. [SUP]7 [/SUP]In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace (In Christ, we have been redeemed completely, according to the riches of Gods grace, which is infinite (unending) Gods grace will never run out. so Gods forgiveness will never stop)
What brought all this about? Who did God predestine? Who did God chose? WHo did God give all his inheritance of everything he had? Who did God give redemption and promise to continue too forgive as long as his grace was able?
[SUP]12 [/SUP]that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory. [SUP]13 [/SUP]In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, [SUP]14 [/SUP]who[SUP][b][/SUP] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Those who have (or in the aspect of predestination, those who God knew would in the future) HAVE FAITH IN THE GOSPEL. the WORD OF TRUTH.
They are not only given all the things in the first 10 verses, But they are also given the HS, who is a pledge to their right of being called children of God (see also John 1, [SUP]12[/SUP]But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: )
and how long was this pledge to last?
until we sinned to much?
Until we left the church?
Until we lost faith? (Even when we are faithless, he is faithful, he can not deny himself 2 tim 2: 13)
no, none of these, We are sealed by the HS, who is the guarantee of our inheritance (all things under heaven) until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. or in other words, the day we are ressurected, and our redemption is fulfilled.
so no, we can not lose salvation, No way, no how. Anyone who says we can, Calls God a liar. Makes God out to be a God who makes mistakes (he has to unchose and un predestine and unseal us) and makes salvation based on their own works of righteousness. Not Gods.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Look at all those here who are defending this---->>>>
And are warring against me for defending this----->>>>John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed."
That should speak volumes as to whom these liars serve.
so your sinless?
Comeone ISIT. You have me on ignore, and come out and make pot shots.. So prove I am wrong, prove you are not slandering a person, and admit you are sinless.
because if your not sinless. You just made a fool of yourself by slamming JP for saying God made a mistake, when you by your own admitting have admitted God could not keep you from sinning, thus he failed.
and your slander is the fact you claim JP said we do not need to confess, nor should we.. That has been proven a lie.
Downloaded mine yesterday of DTR. And yes, I'm reading it. And yes, it is golden. When ISIT is done, I'll have a go at it.
I replied to gb9 in post #260 and I made the following comment:InSpiritInTruth said:
"ISIT's link does mention that "We don't sin as believers when we walk in the light; we sin when we walk away from it. In which case, we do as I John 1:9 instructs, we repent and get back in the light!"
I suppose we can conclude that ISIT follows the same instructions contained in 1 John 1:9 that the rest of us mere mortals follow."
Rather than acknowledge "Yes, I follow the instruction of 1 John 1:9 and I confess my sins", your reply in post #267 was
"Errr, JP's followers don't believe confession of sin is necessary
The word of God teaches---->>>>
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." "
In reply (post #270) I asked "Do you confess your sins to Father?"
No response from you, although in posts #274 and #275 you commented on the other two points I made in post #270.
Silence speaks louder than words.
If you do, in fact, stumble in your walk and sometimes find you have sinned, and then confess your sins to Father, you can acknowledge that.
Or you can remain obstinately silent and lie in the bed you have made for yourself. And then cry foul when comments are made as to your supposed spiritual perfection. You have made it more than abundantly clear that you like the bed you have made for yourself (victim) because you can free yourself without much effort on your part.
It really is your choice, InSpiritInTruth.
Rather than imply I am reprobate, why don't you tell me what you find so annoying about my comment in post #323:InSpiritInTruth said:
reneweddaybyday said:
So just make stuff up about me then, is that how you liars and false accusers justify your lies and false accusations??? I am still waiting for proof from both you and them of what I am accused of saying IN MY OWN WORDS...Will be waiting but I know the proof will never come because I never said the things I am constantly accused of. Have a nice day.
Downloaded mine yesterday of DTR. And yes, I'm reading it. And yes, it is golden. When ISIT is done, I'll have a go at it.
I don't think I will have enough time in this lifetime to cover all the false doctrine contained in his books, so have at it.
OK! You are entitled to your opinion. You can disagree with me (and you can disagree vehemently!) and that is OK!
I also have my opinion. And I believe in my opinion very deeply as well.
I grew up being taught and believing myself that anyone who taught or believed in "once saved always saved" also believed that it did not matter how you lived - discipleship and good works were unimportant and don't matter - go out and live in sin because you will get to heaven anyway!
After some wrestling and disputing on this site and in person with people who believe in OSAS I have found that it is not this easy. Not everyone who believes in OSAS believes it does not matter how you live. In fact, some of you on this site who believe in OSAS faithfully teach (and I believe practice) a holy disciplined Godly life.
I quit saying that everyone who believes in OSAS "doesn't care about sinning and just cares about getting to heaven!" Now, I still believe that this is a very real danger with believing OSAS! If someone really believes OSAS is true, it can lead to them thinking it doesn't really matter how they live!
Now, here is my point! You look at someone who does not believe in OSAS and immediately believe that they depend on works and think they must earn their salvation. Is this a danger with this view? YES! I grew up in an environment that taught and believed and lived that works are what keep you saved! And oh the problems this causes! Dead people who dress right, look right, but inside are hypocrites!
But I don't believe that works keep a person saved.
I do not believe that I earn my initial salvation and I do not believe that I earn my sanctification.
I hear you saying that I believe something that is exactly the opposite of what I believe!
I think that these two statements/accusations are equally useless and unbiblical:
(1) Someone who believes in OSAS does not believe in discipleship and believes it is OK to live a life of sin
(2) Someone who does not believe in OSAS believes that salvation is kept by works and by earning it.
Listen - I am not saying we should not debate and wrestle deeply over this issue of salvation and the gift of eternal life and how it comes to us and what it means! Yes, let's look at what Scripture says and talk ("dispute" as KJV Acts 15 says!). But my point here is that using the two accusations above as blanket statements does not help.
I see these two statements used quite a bit on this forum and I think it doesn't help anything at all!
I have on numerous occasions but it never stops you from lying habitually about me and others and neither has it stopped you from bringing numerous false accusations. Which is why I put you on ignore long ago, as you also know as well. The question is, why is such a graceful person as yourself following another person around and constantly bringing more false accusations against him when he knows he is on ignore???
Perhaps it has to do with some sort of deep rooted hatred?
I don't think I will have enough time in this lifetime to cover all the false doctrine contained in his books, so have at it.
I don't think I will have enough time in this lifetime to cover all the false doctrine contained in his books, so have at it.
Oh, well that will probably come sooner, Lord willing of course.
Downloaded mine yesterday of DTR. And yes, I'm reading it. And yes, it is golden. When ISIT is done, I'll have a go at it.
I have no objections to honest disagreements. (As both 777 and I have said, we have several with Prince.) Just so long as it is done honestly and in fullness of the text, and in context.. And it has seldom been treated that way here.
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I don't think I will have enough time in this lifetime to cover all the false doctrine contained in his books, so have at it.
That's a remarkable talent. Didn't you say you have never read even one of his books?.... yet you know that you disagree with what is said in them. Absolutely remarkable. LOL
Please note I started a new thread with some of these thoughts, so please respond there to this post if you care to.
Called "Two Useless/inappropriate/wrong accusations"
So, if/when we say you do sin, we're not making stuff up ... or lying ... or falsely accusing?InSpiritInTruth said:
btw, no response to my request that you point out what issue you have with my statement?
reneweddaybyday said: