Doctrine of Unconditional Election
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And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Yes, this kind of faith of Paul was produced from Christ, not of the law. Hence, Paul could say “That I may know him” and about Christ’s gospel. The phrase “faith of Christ” simply Paul’s faith is sourced from what Christ did. This is not about Christ's faith given to us. Only the Calvinist opinion makes that not a scriptural option.
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
Yes, this kind of faith of Paul was produced from Christ, not of the law. Hence, Paul could say “That I may know him” and about Christ’s gospel. The phrase “faith of Christ” simply Paul’s faith is sourced from what Christ did. This is not about Christ's faith given to us. Only the Calvinist opinion makes that not a scriptural option.
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Why are you trying to con Christians out of understanding the truth of Paul's teaching?
You have to ignore Ephesians scripture in order to arrive at your conclusion. Don't let your presumption and bias against those whom you imagine are Calvinists, I'm not, cloud your reading of Paul's Epistles.
Furthermore, to your false charge that my post was off topic. You may wish to read the thread title again so that you are on topic in understanding.
Unconditional election is a phrase that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the predestination—or the election—of people for salvation. It represents the second letter of the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate the five points of Calvinism, also known as the Doctrines of Grace. Other terms for the same doctrine include “unmerited favor,” “sovereign election” or “adopted by God.” All these terms are good names for this doctrine because each reveals some aspect of the doctrine of election. However, more important than the term we use to describe the doctrine is how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about election and predestination.
The debate over unconditional election is not whether or not God elects or predestines people to salvation but upon what basis He elects them. ...Continues
You have to ignore Ephesians scripture in order to arrive at your conclusion. Don't let your presumption and bias against those whom you imagine are Calvinists, I'm not, cloud your reading of Paul's Epistles.
Furthermore, to your false charge that my post was off topic. You may wish to read the thread title again so that you are on topic in understanding.
Unconditional election is a phrase that is used to summarize what the Bible teaches about the predestination—or the election—of people for salvation. It represents the second letter of the acronym TULIP, which is commonly used to enumerate the five points of Calvinism, also known as the Doctrines of Grace. Other terms for the same doctrine include “unmerited favor,” “sovereign election” or “adopted by God.” All these terms are good names for this doctrine because each reveals some aspect of the doctrine of election. However, more important than the term we use to describe the doctrine is how accurately the doctrine summarizes what the Bible teaches about election and predestination.
The debate over unconditional election is not whether or not God elects or predestines people to salvation but upon what basis He elects them. ...Continues
I think Fredo's prejudice against Calvinism has them seeing Calvinists everywhere he/she looks. Even to the point their bias abrogates scripture that was pre-Augustine, and pre-John Calvin.
"There are several common misconceptions about unconditional election. First, it is important to understand that the doctrine does not teach that God’s choice is capricious or arbitrary. It is not random or made without reason. What it does teach is that God elects someone to salvation not because of something worthy God finds in that individual but because of His inscrutable, mysterious will. He makes the choice as to who will be saved for His own reasons, according to His own perfect will and for His own good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). And while some object to the doctrine of election as being unfair, it is nevertheless based upon God’s will and it pleases God; therefore, it must be good and perfectly just. "
Unconditional election - is it biblical?
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Romans 9:11 Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls
2 Timothy 1:9 Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Bold text is my addition to this excerpt.
Election in the Bible
Joel S. Kaminsky, Joel N. Lohr
Introduction
Election within the Bible is the notion that God favors some individuals and groups over others, an idea that finds fullest expression in the Hebrew Bible’s affirmation, supported in the New Testament, that Israel is God’s chosen people. Election/chosenness is quite pervasive in the Hebrew Bible as evidenced by the recurring sibling rivalry stories in Genesis in which one sibling is specially favored. God’s granting Israel special status entailed both unmerited privilege as well as an expectation of a proper human response toward God. Genesis 18:19 states, “I have chosen him [Abraham], that he may charge his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice; so that the Lord may bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” Similarly, Exodus 19:5–6 proclaims: “Now then, if you will obey Me faithfully and keep My covenant, you shall be My treasured possession among all the peoples.” Election is related to Israel’s status as a “holy nation” (e.g., Deut 14:2, “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God; it is you the Lord has chosen out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession”), and is grounded in an act of divine love and faithfulness to the divine promise (Deut 7:6–9). Despite severe castigation of Israel’s failings, the prophetic corpus appears to assume the permanence of Israel’s election even while the prophets proclaim that Israel’s privileged status carried with it heavier responsibility than other nations and stricter standards of judgment (Amos 3:2). Some of the most profound biblical meditations on the implications of chosenness can be found in Isaiah 40–66, a collection of postexilic oracles, sayings that time and again declare God’s enduring love for his beloved people and his intention to restore them once more to a flourishing life in the land of Israel. The belief that the Jews are God’s chosen people is a central theological axiom within post-biblical Jewish tradition. The New Testament, building on Hebrew Bible antecedents, depicts Jesus as the beloved, or specially chosen, son of God. Certain New Testament texts, like the Gospel of John and Revelation, at times appear to equate those chosen by God with those who will obtain ultimate salvation, a notion that becomes amplified within those forms of Protestantism influenced by Luther’s emphasis on being saved by grace (through faith) and especially Calvin’s theology of double predestination. Yet, within much of the biblical tradition the idea of election is neither dualistic nor directly linked with one’s salvation or damnation. One of the most central debates in New Testament studies is the question of the nascent church’s relationship to the historic people of Israel and whether Jewish resistance to the gospels meant they had forfeited their election, a topic discussed in great depth by Paul in Romans 9–11. Ultimately, Paul concludes that God’s election of Israel stands, even for those who have become “enemies of the gospel,” something he calls a “mystery” (Rom 11:25–28).
"There are several common misconceptions about unconditional election. First, it is important to understand that the doctrine does not teach that God’s choice is capricious or arbitrary. It is not random or made without reason. What it does teach is that God elects someone to salvation not because of something worthy God finds in that individual but because of His inscrutable, mysterious will. He makes the choice as to who will be saved for His own reasons, according to His own perfect will and for His own good pleasure (Ephesians 1:5). And while some object to the doctrine of election as being unfair, it is nevertheless based upon God’s will and it pleases God; therefore, it must be good and perfectly just. "
Unconditional election - is it biblical?
Acts 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.
Romans 9:11 Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls
2 Timothy 1:9 Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,
Bold text is my addition to this excerpt.
Election in the Bible
Joel S. Kaminsky, Joel N. Lohr
- LAST REVIEWED: 11 August 2020
- LAST MODIFIED: 24 February 2021
- DOI: 10.1093/obo/9780195393361-0250
Introduction
Election within the Bible is the notion that God favors some individuals and groups over others, an idea that finds fullest expression in the Hebrew Bible’s affirmation, supported in the New Testament, that Israel is God’s chosen people. Election/chosenness is quite pervasive in the Hebrew Bible as evidenced by the recurring sibling rivalry stories in Genesis in which one sibling is specially favored. God’s granting Israel special status entailed both unmerited privilege as well as an expectation of a proper human response toward God. Genesis 18:19 states, “I have chosen him [Abraham], that he may charge his children and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord by doing righteousness and justice; so that the Lord may bring about for Abraham what he has promised him.” Similarly, Exodus 19:5–6 proclaims: “Now then, if you will obey Me faithfully and keep My covenant, you shall be My treasured possession among all the peoples.” Election is related to Israel’s status as a “holy nation” (e.g., Deut 14:2, “For you are a people holy to the Lord your God; it is you the Lord has chosen out of all the peoples on earth to be his people, his treasured possession”), and is grounded in an act of divine love and faithfulness to the divine promise (Deut 7:6–9). Despite severe castigation of Israel’s failings, the prophetic corpus appears to assume the permanence of Israel’s election even while the prophets proclaim that Israel’s privileged status carried with it heavier responsibility than other nations and stricter standards of judgment (Amos 3:2). Some of the most profound biblical meditations on the implications of chosenness can be found in Isaiah 40–66, a collection of postexilic oracles, sayings that time and again declare God’s enduring love for his beloved people and his intention to restore them once more to a flourishing life in the land of Israel. The belief that the Jews are God’s chosen people is a central theological axiom within post-biblical Jewish tradition. The New Testament, building on Hebrew Bible antecedents, depicts Jesus as the beloved, or specially chosen, son of God. Certain New Testament texts, like the Gospel of John and Revelation, at times appear to equate those chosen by God with those who will obtain ultimate salvation, a notion that becomes amplified within those forms of Protestantism influenced by Luther’s emphasis on being saved by grace (through faith) and especially Calvin’s theology of double predestination. Yet, within much of the biblical tradition the idea of election is neither dualistic nor directly linked with one’s salvation or damnation. One of the most central debates in New Testament studies is the question of the nascent church’s relationship to the historic people of Israel and whether Jewish resistance to the gospels meant they had forfeited their election, a topic discussed in great depth by Paul in Romans 9–11. Ultimately, Paul concludes that God’s election of Israel stands, even for those who have become “enemies of the gospel,” something he calls a “mystery” (Rom 11:25–28).
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How about Christ's faith? You don't think He was faithful? You don't think that He manifested faith?
[Rev 2:13 KJV]
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
[Rev 2:13 KJV]
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat [is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
Yes, and your quote seems different from the topic at hand. I read the OP and is about pre- salvation, not a post-salvation topic Fellowship is attained once saved.
1 Corinthians 1:9 Context
6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1 Corinthians 1:9 Context
6Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: 7So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: 8Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
E
I never said this You spoke about me being rude to you the other day. Continuing to say this is you being rude my friend, as you continue to claim I said something I have never said or even hinted at.
I have always maintained my faith Come from the work of God in my life through his word. through people and through the Holy spirit.
Once again. Show me where I have ever claimed my faith is in myself. Show me where I ever said my faith is in ANYTHING by Jesus and the cross and his promise.
This is why these discussions never seem to get anywhere, People people assume they know what the other person believes and cannot get past their own preconceived ideas of what the other person really believes
I have always maintained my faith Come from the work of God in my life through his word. through people and through the Holy spirit.
Once again. Show me where I have ever claimed my faith is in myself. Show me where I ever said my faith is in ANYTHING by Jesus and the cross and his promise.
This is why these discussions never seem to get anywhere, People people assume they know what the other person believes and cannot get past their own preconceived ideas of what the other person really believes
from @fredoheaven
it could be that they (@Icedaisey ) are very much explaining just one part -- or a few -- of a much larger picture ("now we know in part and prophesy in part"). a picture that even the most studied and learned in studying the Bible possibly can't even see or fathom...... yet; because, "..... now we see through a glass darkly"...... and also because some things (spiritual) need to be - spiritually - discerned.
we all have ideas or beliefs about what the Bible means, and so many variations out there. since most don't know as God knows yet -- full of light and truth and holiness, most things written here could be called opinion by any other person -- according to their somewhat obscured (some probably much more than others) view on things and/ or history of learning and studying. also because as we are told in the Bible: we only now (and is also common sense as well -- for the humble [Matt 11:29]) - -- currently see ---- in part, and prophesy ---- in part.
this of course begs the question -- are you wrong ? am I wrong ? are some of the 'parts' i / you / anyone now believe somewhat wrong or even totally wrong ?! because maybe I / you / anyone here have some missing pieces (in our minds, hearts, spirits) -- pieces we have very much yet to learn or even just become aware of even the possibility of -- with a coming awareness in ourselves -- that we don't actually know for sure -- with perfection (like unto Christ/ God) -- as in all-knowing, every single part and piece and level and dimension of knowledge -- as perfection knows.
it could be that they (@Icedaisey ) are very much explaining just one part -- or a few -- of a much larger picture ("now we know in part and prophesy in part"). a picture that even the most studied and learned in studying the Bible possibly can't even see or fathom...... yet; because, "..... now we see through a glass darkly"...... and also because some things (spiritual) need to be - spiritually - discerned.
we all have ideas or beliefs about what the Bible means, and so many variations out there. since most don't know as God knows yet -- full of light and truth and holiness, most things written here could be called opinion by any other person -- according to their somewhat obscured (some probably much more than others) view on things and/ or history of learning and studying. also because as we are told in the Bible: we only now (and is also common sense as well -- for the humble [Matt 11:29]) - -- currently see ---- in part, and prophesy ---- in part.
this of course begs the question -- are you wrong ? am I wrong ? are some of the 'parts' i / you / anyone now believe somewhat wrong or even totally wrong ?! because maybe I / you / anyone here have some missing pieces (in our minds, hearts, spirits) -- pieces we have very much yet to learn or even just become aware of even the possibility of -- with a coming awareness in ourselves -- that we don't actually know for sure -- with perfection (like unto Christ/ God) -- as in all-knowing, every single part and piece and level and dimension of knowledge -- as perfection knows.
There is no such thing as "Christ's faith". What do you think He is trusting in? That is absurd.
The issue is Christ's faithfulness. So quit talking about your false doctrine of "Christ's faith".
So what did He have faith IN?
The text is simple enough. "hast not denied by faith" means hasn't denied faith IN Me".
The main issue in the Bible is to trust or have faith IN Christ.
The issue is Christ's faithfulness. So quit talking about your false doctrine of "Christ's faith".
So what did He have faith IN?
The text is simple enough. "hast not denied by faith" means hasn't denied faith IN Me".
The main issue in the Bible is to trust or have faith IN Christ.
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