Doctrine of Unconditional Election

[Duckybill]

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

From this verse, WHEN does a believer POSSESS eternal life? It says those who believe (present tense) HAVE (as in possess, also in the present tense) eternal life.

So, we KNOW from this verse that the MOMENT of saving faith in Christ, the believer possesses eternal life.

Now, does the Bible teach anywhere that eternal life can be revoked? No.

Now, John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

This verse very clearly says that those given eternal life shall NEVER PERISH.

So, you now have a choice to make. Either continue believing the very unbiblical heresy that salvation can be lost, or accept the clear words of Jesus Himself about how to receive eternal life (Jn 5:24), and the result of having eternal life (Jn 10:28).

Your choice.

Didn't you bother to read anything I posted? I have already agreed that we can forsake God. So get it already.

And pay attention to and respond to what I post.

You erroneously equate "forsaking God" with losing salvation, yet I gave you 2 verses that absolutely REFUTE that nutty idea.

When a person believes, they possess eternal life. John 5:24
When a person receives eternal life, they shall never perish. John 10:28

So, you have a choice. Believe the words Jesus said or reject them.

I've read it many times. ZERO OSAS in the Bible.

 

[Duckybill]

Are you even conscious? I've already refuted your unbiblical ideas.

When a person believes, they possess eternal life. John 5:24
When a person receives eternal life, they shall never perish. John 10:28

So, you have a choice. Either believe what Jesus said about eternal security, or reject what He said.

Here come the personal attacks that OSASers nearly always turn to when they have ZERO Scripture.

 

[Duckybill]

If you're referring to the book of James, respectfully, I don't think that you're correctly understanding the verses regarding faith and works.

No James is not wrong. OSASers are.
James "Faith without works is DEAD".

 

[Duckybill]

FreeGrace2 said:
You've certainly ignored (or flatout rejected) Jesus' words in John 5:24 and 10:28.

Well, thanks for demonstrating your coma. I have already quoted both verses to you and pointed out what they SAY. And you come back with this nonsense about your childish insinuation that it's "too much trouble to quote Scripture for" you.

You need to wake up and grow up if you are serious about having an adult discussion. If not, maybe that suggests you are a troll.


Did you take the time to actually read with comprehension this passage??

What "is to be burned"? Do you actually think the dirt burns? Have you ever burned dirt? v.7-8 speaks of what the ground (dirt) produces. Either it bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, or it bears thorns and briars.

So, the Bible SAYS it is the thorns and briars that "is to be burned". No farmer would give you the time of day about the nutty idea that the dirt is to be burned. In fact, YOU CAN'T BURN DIRT.

What a farmer CAN burn are thorns and briars. This passage is parallel to what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 3-
12 If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work.
14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward.
15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.

For everyone who automatically thinks "hell" or the lake of fire when they come to "fire" in the Bible, like you have done with Heb 6:4-9, every believer's works will be "revealed with fire". This is a description of God's evaluation of our works.

Note what will be burned up: v.12 gives us what our works are made of: gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw.

Do I have to mansplain to you which of these materials will even burn? Paul was comparing works done in the power of the Spirit (being filled with the Spirit), gold, silver and costly stones, with works done in the flesh (not filled with the Spirit), wood, hay, and straw.

This parallels Heb 6 and what it burned.

btw, for all Arminians, v.15 proves that salvation cannot be lost; EVEN IF one's human good is all burned up, "the builder will suffer loss, but YET WILL BE SAVED."

Too many stop at "suffer loss" and PRESUME/ASSUME that it refers to salvation; loss of salvation. But Paul nailed the coffin on the unbiblical idea that salvation can be lost. He clearly said even though a believer's good works done in the flesh will be burned up, which means no reward, they WILL BE SAVED.

So now you've been introduced to 2 more passages that teach eternal security. Your excuses for rejecting eternal security have run out.

You have been shown very clear Scripture.

You have a choice to make. Accept the Bible, or reject it.

Why must OSASers use personal attacks when they have ZERO Scripture?

I accept the Bible.

Mark 13:13 (NKJV)
13 And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

 

[Duckybill]

See post 3833. This passage was compared with 1 Cor 3:12-15 and totally refutes your opinions.

You are out of excuses.

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Amen Jesus! OSASers don't have a clue!

 

[Duckybill]

FreeGrace2 said:
This proves how much you totally FAIL to understand the Bible.

You should begin with believing Scripture. Start with John 5:24 and John 10:28 and then see the clear parallel between Heb 6:4-9 and 1 Cor 3:12-15.

I do believe. But it doesn't say we can't forsake God.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

[2Pe 1:20 KJV] 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Meaning that any one verse is not conclusive in itself - this is the exact opposite to what you said

We really need to read 2 Peter 1:20 in the context within which it sits:

2 Peter 1:

16 For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

18 And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.

19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

In vss 16-18, Peter spoke of the majesty of the Lord Jesus Christ which Peter personally witnessed (Matt 17, Mark 9, Luke 9).

In vs 19, Peter mentions a more sure word of prophecy which is to be relied upon and that is shown in vss 20-21:

vs 20-21 - no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation for holy men of God spake as they were moved by Holy Spirit.

In other words, the Scripture is not the writing of men. Scripture is the Word of God ... God gave the words to holy men who wrote the words God gave them.

To see exactly how this worked, read Jeremiah 36. God revealed His Word to Jeremiah and Jeremiah had a scribe by the name of Baruch who wrote down the words (Jer 36:4). Jeremiah then told Baruch to read the scroll to the people. When the king heard of the scroll, he had the scroll read to him and he burned it up (Jer 36:23). God then had Jeremiah re-write the words (Jer 36:27-32).


So the private interpretation of 2 Peter 1:20 is not on the part of the person who reads Scripture ... the intent of the verse is to relay the fact that the men who wrote the words of Scripture did not write of their own understanding (interpretation). The words were the Word of God and the words were written by holy men of God as they were moved by Holy Spirit.

Now, this does not mean that we are to willy-nilly read Scripture and come up with our own understanding. We are told that we are to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
.

 

[Beckie]

Hebrews 6:4-8 (NKJV)
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit (Christians), 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

Amen Jesus! OSASers don't have a clue!

What do you think a osas Christian does in his daily Christian life? Here is a short list from the osas folks I know.
Share the gospel,,, pray....read scripture...support the local church.....understand the importance of raising kids according to scripture ....living the gospel at work etc. Prayer includes praise repentance .

 

[Duckybill]

What do you think a osas Christian does in his daily Christian life? Here is a short list from the osas folks I know.
Share the gospel,,, pray....read scripture...support the local church.....understand the importance of raising kids according to scripture ....living the gospel at work etc. Prayer includes praise repentance .

The OSASers here hurl personal insults at and judge nonOSASers as unsaved.

 

[Gideon300]

well, one issue is man has taken the word "Elect" and made it "selection".

Elect means to choose. What is the difference between "select" and "choose"? I think the point that gets overlooked is election is according to what God "foreknew" (Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2). What exactly did God know in advance? Those who would believe the gospel and receive Christ? No one who knew me as a young man would put me down as a likely Christian. God knew. I'm delighted that He did!

 

[rogerg]

Now, this does not mean that we are to willy-nilly read Scripture and come up with our own understanding. We are told that we are to Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15).
.

No, don't think so - it means that no one verse should be, and must not, relied upon for a complete understanding of any doctrine.
Were you correct, then the allegory, parables and symbols of the Bible would be unknowable because they could not stand
on their own. As such, they require other verses for their true meaning to brought to light and biblical doctrine to be completed. God
warns that trusting only in any one verse would not lead the reader not to truth but to error (by the way, interpretation pertains to the interpreting of something already written, not to its writer's perspective. Holy men of old didn't need to interpret anything, they were directly MOVED of God to write precisely what He wanted written - notice the verse says that no prophecy of SCRIPTURE is of any private interpretation, it doesn't say that no prophecy is of any private interpretation).

To further clarify:

[Gal 4:24 KJV] 24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.
[Gal 4:25-26 KJV]
25 For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.
26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

[Mat 13:34 KJV] 34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:

Now, you might say that allegory and parables are obvious and therefore the verses wherein they are used can be separated from other verses that seem to have a more obvious and direct meaning. However, I would say that based upon Gal 4:24 (amongst others), that all verses of the Bible in some manner or other, are part of the allegory because they are all subjective to those verses, which means that no verse can be taken as being standalone, even though that might not be obvious on surface: God used progressive revelation throughout the Bible as central to the way in which He revealed truth. This can be further observed in that He chose to have both testaments of the Bible written -- Old Testament and the New Testament -- not just one, for the revealing His complete gospel message.

To rightly divide the word of truth means to differentiate and make visible the heavenly from the earthly of scripture - both levels can and often are present in the same verse at the same time even though we may not immediately comprehend it.

Lastly, we are informed in the Bible of the following:

[Psa 40:7 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,
[Heb 10:7 KJV]
7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

This means that Christ and the mission that God the Father assigned Him, are both the Bible's apex and foundation, and as such, that He is in all verses in some way. Yet, in reading the Bible, this is not always evident and can only be brought to light through the knowledge of, and in following of the admonition that no verse is of any private interpretation, and also, by the comparing of the spiritual, with the spiritual.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

YAY! OSASers say I can NEVER be unsaved!

Show me one Osaser that says YOU "Duckybill" can never be unsaved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

You can forsake God and still be a Christian??????????????????

Show me in scripture where God forsakes us..after we are saved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes you were a dog. Christians can admit that FACT!

Yep. I was a dog.

But when I was born again, I became a new creation. I can;t make myself a dog again. I do not have the power to change what God did

Thats the point of the passage. a dog (a person who was never saved, made new) returns to his vomit

He can act like a christian. Play the game. But he will always return to what he is..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Amen! Christianity is a works religion!

Yep

Because true believers WILL do works

Fake believers MAY do works. but they will return to what they really are. a make believer (dog)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Mankind: we are sinners God is not why do o many want their salvation to be in their own sinful hands/heart.

one word.. Pride

Pride - I am not that bad. I do not deserve hell. I believe in Jesus. so I will say a prayer saying I believe in Jesus. But change my life? I am not bad (Licentiousness)

Pride - I am a sinner, I deserve death. But I can;t let God pay for it all. I have to pay it back myself to do it my way. So I will repay God by my works, Religion, Traditions by loving God and being obedient to his commands!! etc etc. (legalism)

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes, disqualified clearly means LOST!

Your opinion is wrong. The verse refers to loss of eternal reward for service. But those who believe the heresy that salvation can be lost cannot or will not understand the verses that teach about loss of reward.

It is clearly taught in 1 For 3:14,15. The "loss" mentioned in v.15 cannot be salvation because Paul follows the "loss" with "but they shall be saved".

So there you have it.

You are peddling a heretical false doctrine. Are you teachable? Because you need lots of teaching.

 

[FreeGrace2]

I've read it many times. ZERO OSAS in the Bible.

If you've read John 5:24, John 10:28, and 1 Cor 3:12-15 and STILL believe the heretical false doctrine that salvation can be lost, then you have just admitted that you can't read so well.

As I said, after sharing the above verses with you, you had a choice to make. And it is clear you have made your choice. You reject the truth of what Jesus said, and continue to cling to your heretical false doctrine that salvation can be lost.

And, you have demonstrated that you are not teachable.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Here come the personal attacks that OSASers nearly always turn to when they have ZERO Scripture.

What a lie! I gave you John 5;24 and 10:28 which are the clearest verses about eternal security.

But since you have clearly demonstrated that you are not teachable, you lie about what others post. There was no personal attack in my post. I asked a question. And you always don't answer my questions. So just quit lying, ok?

I showed you clear verses on eternal security. And you showed your rejection of Jesus' own words. You have been fully exposed.

 

[FreeGrace2]

No James is not wrong. OSASers are.
James "Faith without works is DEAD".

James' point was that a faith without works is barren. He said nothing about loss of salvation. Too bad that you aren't teachable.